The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Consensus is he does not yet meet WP:PROF. Have salted but that can be re-considered via DRV in the future once it has been established via userspace draft that he meets notability. StarM 21:15, 30 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hoseini nasab (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

I'd like to establish whether this person is notable once and for all. Clearly the article has been recreated aggressively by a now-blocked user, and I suspect someone will attempt to create it again. A previous AfD for this person was done here, but the result was speedy delete.

The correct spelling of the person is question is Ayatollah Seyed Reza Hosseini Nassab. This person is seemingly an honorary doctorate, and involved with the Islamic Ahul Bayt Assembly of Canada 1. A forum suggests he teaches classes in Toronto 2. According to the website of the Al Huda Muslim Society, he "has been studying and teaching at Qum Seminary , which is one of the greatest Universities of Shi'a Islam (1976-1991). He is a guidance for the muslim community in GTA and is the resident alim of Al Huda Muslim Society." 3. I personally don't see a reason to call what seems to be a professor notable, but I'd like to hear the community's opinion. FlyingToaster 06:41, 26 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete Clearly every professor in the world needn't appear on Wikipedia, and which such a long history if there was truly something notable about this person it would be on there by now. Johnson8776 (talk) 06:54, 26 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Good job finding those external sources, I imagine it wasn't easy. However, I don't think this particular person is notable enough for inclusion. If you look at the relevant criteria for inclusion, you'll find the only one this individual could possibly meet is #3 - works at a prestigious school, or organization. While I am impressed that you managed to even find sources, very few of them are particularly reliable and there's not enough to keep the article well-referenced. Delete and SALT. Master&Expert (Talk) 06:57, 26 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Master&Expert: I agree, and point out sardonically that there is not enough salt in the ocean ;) FlyingToaster 07:01, 26 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Speedy delete (G11/G5) and salt — I would not accept this spam (blatant advertising) without any salt (creation protection) on it!! In fact, I would argue on deletion of the article on a user who is basically banned from editing due to the community's numerous blocks on said creator. MuZemike (talk) 08:42, 26 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Strong delete and use lots of salt. None of the numerous incarnations of this article come close to meeting WP:PROF. I'm also thinking about requesting a Checkuser so a sweep can be done on the IP, given the level of disruption. Blueboy96 14:31, 26 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete and salt generously - per above.--Boffob (talk) 18:37, 26 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete and Salt Plenty of time has been provided over multiple incarnations of this article to establish notability. This has not happened because the notability does not exist. Non-notable person = deletion. Theseeker4 (talk) 20:21, 26 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete but DO NOT Speedy Delete The purpose of this AfD is to get consensus from the community so when this article next pops up, CSD G4 can be used. A speedy delete has already been done 1. What we need is resolution, so next time this is fast. Given the various spellings that have been used, I don't feel salting alone will solve this problem. FlyingToaster 21:02, 26 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Iran-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 21:04, 26 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Living people-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 21:05, 26 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 21:05, 26 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Islam-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 21:05, 26 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete, but not speedily. No sign of passing WP:PROF or WP:BIO. I looked at this last night while on speedy deletion patrol; along with Hoseini nasab, we have previously deleted articles Ayatollah Hoseini-Nasab, Seyed Reza Hosseini Nassab (created twice), Sayed Reza Hoseini Nasab, Hosseini Nassab, Ayatollah Hosseini Nasab, and Seyed Reza Hoseini Nasab. All have been speedily deleted, some under G4, but I couldn't find a past deletion discussion to use as the basis for a G4 deletion. A7 is a possibility, but I think we would be best off holding a full discussion rather than just deleting speedily again and continuing the cycle. I'm not convinced salting would be effective, though, given so many variations in spelling already. —David Eppstein (talk) 21:26, 26 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. It does not seem to even get close to to passing WP:PROF. One of the key claims of the article is that the author wrote many books, including books in English. A WorldCat book search returned 2 hits, apparently for the same book – Menschwerdung (a German translation of a book written in Persian) – which is held by only 1 library worldwide.--Eric Yurken (talk) 02:12, 27 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. I wonder if reaching the rank of Ayatollah does not qualify him as notable under something like WP:PROF criterion 5 (I think few would question that those criteria are somewhat ethnocentric). There are indeed several references to him as having reached that rank. Perhaps an expert could help us here.--Eric Yurken (talk) 02:28, 27 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment. I did a bit more research on this; see here, for example. It seems that attaining the rank of Ayatollah is somewhat equivalent to getting a Ph.D. in theology, which would not necessarily ensure notability under WP:N. The rank of Grand Ayatollah appears to be significantly more difficult to reach, and implies that he is “accepted as a reference for religious issues and has written one or more highly-referenced books about Islam”, which is more in line with what one needs to have to pass WP:PROF. It does not seem that Nassab reached the rank of Grand Ayatollah yet. Again, an expert opinion would be useful.--Eric Yurken (talk) 16:25, 27 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • Comment A quick look at that ref and our articles reinforced my impression that projecting it on to the western system, Ayatollah is something more than a Ph.D. and closer to our WP:PROF criteria. It is a higher rank than Hojatoleslam and involves having followers already. Grand Ayatollah seems very definitely notable, too high a bar, as there are only 20 or so of them for up to 170 million (using wiki's numbers and statements - overwhelming majority of 85% of 200 million) Usuli Twelver Shi'ites.John Z (talk) 21:15, 27 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
        • Comment I know this source is bad (just a forum) but it does gel with what Rezanasab was saying about "honorary" rather than earned degrees and I don't think we've gotten an authority on the topic here yet. So, for what it's worth:

• Keep - The subject appears to meet WP:PROF#Criteria. Tatarian (talk) 21:27, 27 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per SPAM. Thanks. Ism schism (talk) 21:35, 27 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • What? How is it spam? 90.216.61.13 (talk) 23:16, 27 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Please see WP:SPAM. This will answer your questions. Thanks. Ism schism (talk) 23:24, 27 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. Non-notable religious leader. Certainly doesn't pass WP:PROF: it appears that most of the 40 books he has written are self-published, and many are really just long pamphlets. No real assertion of notability, let alone any evidence to support it. A brief Google Search turned up nothing about him, strange for a supposedly notable person living in Canada. Salt this article and the other nine versions that have been deleted, but not any as-yet untried variations: too many potentially legitimate article names would have to be protected to do so. RJC ^Talk_Contribs 17:23, 29 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment An anon recently added the statement that he is a Marja or Grand Ayatollah, to his article and to List of Marjas. I tend to doubt this as it would make him the youngest one in the world, and I can't find it at his site. This would make him a clear keep. But I provisionally suggest keeping based on the above discussion, pending further input from more knowledgeable people, which I have requested at Ayatollah.John Z (talk) 23:41, 29 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep - The page is usefull for a lot of researchers and the subject appears to meet WP:PROF#Criteria.216.13.143.158 (talk) 00:09, 30 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete--since I can't see and/or determine notability here according to our standards, notability which could have been claimed or established even via standards measurable across languages. There is no indication given that the man is a top scholar in his field, for instance--very meaningful, to me, is the list of references, which has little authority, to put it mildly. Drmies (talk) 02:35, 30 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.