The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. No consensus to delete. The discussion on renaming can continue on the article's talk page (non-admin closure) Ron Ritzman (talk) 03:55, 22 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Double burden (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

Sort of a neologism, or perhaps more correctly trying to define a reasonably common phrase with a particular defintion that is not universal. Weakly sourced (the web source doesn't even use the phrase "double burden"), seems more like original research. I don't see why this phrase with this definition deserves a Wikipedia page. Previously added PROD tag which was removed. Some guy (talk) 01:08, 17 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Rename to "Second shift (sociology)"—that's the term that Hochschild famously uses. "Double burden" has, however, been used by other scholars. Cosmic Latte (talk) 01:15, 17 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Rename to Second shift which currently redirects to this title (the sociology modifier would only make the title bulky). - Mgm|^(talk) 09:39, 17 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment: Second shift only redirected to this title because Uncle G changed it today, without discussion, in response to this proposed deletion. I have restored the redirect to shift work. Some guy (talk) 00:03, 18 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• A book written by Phyllis Moen, professor, McKnight Presidential Chair in Sociology, at the University of Minnesota, and published by the University of Wisconsin Press, is not a weak source for a sociology subject. This is an expert writing in her field of expertise. Moen uses the name "double burden". As do Weatherall, Joshi, Macran in Social Science and Medicine (1994 Jan;38(2):285–297) and Oropesa in the Journal of Family Issues (doi:10.1177/019251393014003006). And those were just picked at random. Barbara Engel, cited in the further reading section, is a professor at the University of Colorado, and she calls it a "double burden" on the very page number given in the citation. In the same book, on page 122, Judith P. Zinsser, professor at Miami University, and Bonnie S. Anderson, professor at the City University of New York, define "double burden" using that very name.

  The nominator has clearly made zero effort whatsoever in looking for sources, even after it was shown by example that sources exist. Xe hasn't even looked at the sources cited. Not following the instructions in Wikipedia:Guide to deletion#Nomination, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion, Wikipedia:Deletion policy, and User:Uncle G/Wikipedia triage#What to do will yield poor nominations such as this one. You should look for sources yourself before nominating articles for deletion. You do not help Wikpedia one bit by repeatedly nominating articles for deletion instead of working on improving them. Uncle G (talk) 13:40, 17 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment: I agree with Uncle G that nominators ought to do their homework before heading to AfD. Having some background in sociology myself, I have a strong intuition that "second shift" is the more famous term; I'd never heard of "double burden," and must confess I have trouble distinguishing between the two, and thus don't understand why two terms are being used at all. The source I cited above uses them interchangeably. In any event, this is most certainly not WP:OR, so this should be a talk page discussion about whether to rename the article, about how to distinguish between "double burden" and "second shift," etc.—not an AfD. I encourage the nominator to withdraw. Cosmic Latte (talk) 16:49, 17 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Wow, you guys are dicks. I did look through the web source, which doesn't use the term, as I said. I also did a web search for "double burden" and found pages on malnutrition, racism, obesity, etc. Most of the pages that come up seem to be related to income and nutrition and the relation between these things. I don't happen to have the book or be an expert in sociology, so I haven't done my homework and I don't know what I'm talking about? Apparently you both have sociology backgrounds and Uncle G has the very book. And yet look, Latte hasn't ever heard "double burden" used in this way.

I'm disgusted with you, "Uncle G". You repeatedly insult me in an unjustified manner and make ridiculous claims like I "made zero effort whatsoever". You don't know what I'm doing. I certainly haven't been screaming that this article should be deleted, I put in on AfD so rational civil people could discuss it. Some administrator. Some guy (talk) 20:21, 17 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sure the nomination was made in good faith, and I apologize if I seem to have implied otherwise. Different people will conduct different searches, which will yield different results. However, given the results that Uncle G and I came up with, it would seem that the appropriate place to discuss this article is Talk:Double burden rather than here. Cosmic Latte (talk) 11:18, 18 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment: renaming the article to "Second Shift" without the "(sociology)" bit would keep the same problem of it having a name that the average person wouldn't associate with the topic and seems more appropriately applied to a different area (i.e. shift work, which is where the second shift page appropriately redirected before Uncle G changed it). There's even a comment on the "double burden" talk page saying "second shift" should not redirect to it because "nintey-five percent" of users will not benefit from this counter-intuitive redirect. Apparently Uncle G is putting zero effort into what he's doing, since the "shift work" page still says "second shift" will redirect to it. Additionally, "first shift" and "third shift" redirects to "shift work", so it is extremely foolish to have "second shift" redirect somewhere else. EDIT: I have restored the 'second shift' redirect to 'shift work', as the change was made without discussion and contrary to previously expressed opinions. A proper discussion should be held before the redirect is changed. Some guy (talk) 20:51, 17 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Weak keep I thin it pretty much the standard term, but the subject is real, and if there;s a better title , we cn change it. DGG (talk) 08:43, 19 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.