The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.‎

The result was merge to Cardiff. Mark Arsten (talk) 16:02, 13 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Cardiff North (geographical area) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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There is no such geographical place as Cardiff North unambiguously defined by any reliable sources. This article seems to be an area based on an arbitrary line invented by the author of the article. True, there are/were political parliamentary constituencies, Cardiff North, Cardiff South, Cardiff South and Penarth and Cardiff West, but these are well defined and already have Wikipedia articles. I came across these invented areas after an editor began wikilinking them to the words "north", "south", "west" etc. in Cardiff articles. The image in is based on political allegiances (while the map in West, South and East seems to have been invented by a wiki editor). Subsequently I've noticed a discussion has taken place on Talk:Cardiff North (geographical area), including an opinion from a non-involved independent editor which makes it clear this seems to be WP:OR and innappropriate. Cardiff isn't Berlin or Jerusalem, with walls or defining internal borders - time for these invented and confused articles to go, in my view.

I am also nominating the following related pages because of similar reasons - these geographical areas are an invention and open to dispute:

Cardiff West (geographical area) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Cardiff South (geographical area) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Cardiff East (geographical area) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Sionk (talk) 22:22, 14 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Wales-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 23:18, 14 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete These are not separate places or significant officially defined areas. London has separate North, East and South articles, but the Cardiff areas are not as well recognised and coverage appears to be insufficient to meet the notability guideline. Peter James (talk) 18:10, 15 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge any useful content back to Cardiff or split into articles on localities. There is no robust definition for these four divisions of Cardiff, so that where they start and end is a matter of POV. Peterkingiron (talk) 18:27, 17 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Dusti^{*Let's talk!*} 01:59, 21 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

• Merge - anything salvageable back to Cardiff. The specific divisions of north/south/east/west are all a matter of opinion and it will screw everything up if we let people add what they want to division articles like this that have no clear borders. öBrambleberry of RiverClan 14:53, 21 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep - A simple Google search will reveal that these terms are in widespread usage, far from being invented as the nominator claims. Admittedly, the areas are loosely defined, but the same is true for North London, etc. so this does not constitute a reason for deletion. These divisions of the city are culturally different and therefore warrant retention. The simple addition of references can solve the problem of WP:OR. Perhaps a constructive, rather than hostile, approach to this issue is more appropriate. Welshleprechaun 15:06, 24 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Admittedly the North London article is fairly barmy, with climate data for example, but at least its existence and definition is cited to Boundary Commission documents. The simplest solution to the North/South/East/West Cardiff problem, like you say, would be to add reliable sources to the articles. I've searched using Google too and couldn't see any, other than when they were used in the normal way as commonly understood adjectives, or referred to political constituencies. If I was aware of these areas being commonly defined, I wouldn't have nominated the article for discussion. Sionk (talk) 17:30, 24 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, LFaraone 23:58, 28 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep but rename as North Cardiff and expand. The area is not usually called "Cardiff North" (except as a parliamentary constituency) but is often referred to as North Cardiff - for example here, here, here, here, here, etc.. It should be renamed to avoid confusion with the parliamentary constituency. Similar sources can no doubt (I haven't checked) be found for the other areas, which should also be renamed. If the consensus is to merge content elsewhere, the best article in which to do so would be Geography of Cardiff, rather than the main Cardiff article. Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:18, 29 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete or Merge It's worth mentioning somewhere that there is a general area called North Cardiff, perhaps in the Geography of Cardiff article. Most of this article is just unreferenced trivia.HamTin (talk) 12:09, 7 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge and Redirect all into Cardiff. I don't see there as being enough for these all to warrant individual pages at this time. Technical 13 (talk) 17:54, 8 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge/redirect all in Cardiff - for reasons which others have said above. Neutrality^talk 05:51, 9 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Could one of these merger proponents please explain why they want to merge it with Cardiff, rather than with Geography of Cardiff? Cardiff is a big(gish) and historic city, with much to write about. The spatial distribution and characteristics of neighbourhoods within the city are clearly suitable for discussion within the smaller Geography article, rather than the overarching article on the entire city. Ghmyrtle (talk) 06:59, 9 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete. Per nominator. Does not meet notability guidelines + unsourced. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kiruning (talk • contribs) 03:55, 11 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete or Merge I'd just like to point out the list of "Notable Places in North Cardiff" is quite frankly ridiculous - since when did every office or warehouse become "notable" and I find it laughable that someone's added "Marks & Spencer Simply Food Store"! This section is definitely not worth keeping - most of these notable places are no where near notable enough. The other parts should be taken from the other areas and merged together. Adrianw9 (talk) 20:54, 12 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.