Talk:Carlos Ruiz Chapellín

GA review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Carlos Ruiz Chapellín/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Kingsif (talk · contribs) 23:27, 9 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: Thebiguglyalien (talk · contribs) 19:56, 7 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]


I'll have this reviewed shortly. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 🛸 19:56, 7 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Theatre career and later life:

  • The body should begin at the beginning. Right now it doesn't mention that he was born in Caracas in 1865. Ideally, there won't need to be any citations in the infobox because the information is confirmed in the body.
  •  Done
  • "putting on popular shows" – What kind of shows? What role did he play in putting them on?
  •  Done - changed to "producing"
  • Unclear what "a pursuit he never gave up through his filmmaking efforts" means or what pursuit it's referring to.
  • It refers to the phrase directly beforehand - this is not an unusual sentence construction, I don't think this will be unclear to people. Kingsif (talk) 22:59, 12 June 2025 (UTC) Of course, the filmmaking has not yet been established in the article body, so this will need editing anyway. Kingsif (talk) 03:00, 14 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Could we get an explanation of what El rey que rabió is so the reader doesn't have to click the (currently interwiki) link?
  • It's a zarzuela, which I'm not sure will be that helpful (another link) and is already at least implied by the fact it was put on by a zarzuela company, no? It would at least be repetitive to add it. I'll see what I can do. Kingsif (talk) 03:00, 14 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • "could be more comedic" – Does this mean they often weren't? Why only "could"?
  • What makes the shows "Venezuelan in character"?
  • This, the concept of Venezuelan-produced media bearing indefinable hallmarks of Venezuelan identity, is something found a lot in 1. government or government-inspired/controlled sources about Venezuelan media (yay nationalism), 2. other sources discussing early Venezuelan plays/movies. The latter may be accurate or may be more nationalism, and some are just straight up referring to having Venezuelan actors/locations, but it's how the best sources talk about them. Kingsif (talk) 03:00, 14 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • "After Ruiz Chapellín's film exploits between 1897 and 1899" – What film exploits?
  • I notice different citations are used to confirm "brother" and "Adolfo". Do either of the sources specifically say that Adolfo is the brother with whom he created the company? If a separate citation is needed for his brother's name, that implies that the source about them working together doesn't specify who the brother is.
  • The ref that cited Adolfo's name only confirmed some of the shows mentioned in the full sentence, but made it clear this is the brother who was in the youth theatre business with Carlos. The other ref did not name Adolfo, IIRC, but gave a full run-down of the shows they produced for it. I've now fixed this anyway by the creation of an Early life section (to satisfy above re birth) that names Adolfo, and removing that mid-sentence ref here. If you're happy with the name sourced in a section above, the sentence can say "and Adolfo", otherwise it can say "and his brother". Kingsif (talk) 22:59, 12 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • In what way was he "was involved with the beginnings of Venezuelan theatre"? It's not clear what he actually did here, and the quotation implies it's someone's opinion.
  • This is a 1932 quote from (I believe) Vicente Martucci, I can revisit it to see if the source elaborates. What it means is that theatre, as a full industry in Venezuela, was in its infancy in the late 1800s/early 1900s, and Ruiz Chapellín was one of the people who put time, money and effort into making it an industry rather than one-off and/or non-profit shows. Kingsif (talk) 22:59, 12 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • "One of the child stars Ruiz Chapellín discovered" implies that he was actively searching for child stars and we already know this, but nothing to this point says so.
  • Not so much that, to be fair, it's more like he was picking up actors as he travelled and some of them stuck and some of those went on to be famous. But yeah, he discovered a few, and I didn't add other sources that mention such (perhaps present in other sources in the article, I'd have to revisit) (why? Maybe I was tired. IDK.) Let's see what we can add. Kingsif (talk) 03:00, 14 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • "a devoted writer in his later life" – What type of writer? And "devoted" sounds like MOS:PEACOCK.
  • Though "devoted writer" is a common turn of phrase, I have rewritten this. I don't believe the source explicitly specifies, but in context, the source (besides films) mentions zarzuelas and magazines. Kingsif (talk) 22:59, 12 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Images:

  • The image needs confirmation that it is in the public domain in Venezuela, assuming that's where it was taken.
  •  Done See below.

Sources:

  • Are there any sources that confirm the grave actually belongs to him?
  • I see that the blogspot site is associated with a university, but it says it's student-run, which still makes its reliability questionable. Even if it were written by credible authors, I'd want to see a link to the blog from the university website or some other confirmation that it really is supported by the university.
  •  Done See below.

Kingsif, after reading the first section, I'm having trouble making sense of what he actually did or why it's significant. The article is presented in a way that doesn't provide context for a lot of the information being conveyed. I feel that the article might benefit from some reorganizing and rewriting for clarification before it's ready to be evaluated against the GA criteria. It might also be worth putting the article into chronological order, because it's hard to make sense of the timeline as well. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 🛸 20:23, 7 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

And to think I did try sectioning before the nomination, rather than leaving it as a single chronological blob. Different views, perhaps.
Some quick comments on the easily-resolvable things: Image entered PD in Venezuela by 1973 (Following [1]). Re. Blogspot: It's had to be said elsewhere before, Venezuela is an institutionally poor country with high levels of government censorship, especially for universities, and internet/hosting blackouts. This means few formal websites 1. are able to exist 2. are accessible enough to cite. To counter this, anything that wants an online presence hosted outside of Venezuela opts for the only free options they know of: blog hosting sites. Creator/content-wise, these are often more generally reliable than many web sources of Venezuelan origin. Kingsif (talk) 00:11, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Thebiguglyalien: Not sure if you're waiting for more concrete responses than my chatty replies, or haven't seen because I haven't pinged. Anyway, I believe I've addressed all of your current comments, with a series of edits that either remove/add, or clarify from existing sources, the information in the article. The only thing left unedited from the comments you've made is the confirmation of the grave belonging to Ruiz Chapellín. In my comment directly above, I hope I've addressed the other sourcing concern. I have made the theatre section adhere more to chronology - especially not referring to his film career which has not yet been mentioned in the body of the article. I still believe that doing away with sectioning to present everything in a timeline would be more confusing (and, worse prose). The content on filmmaking is that which is stronger and has had a longer editing history, so I expect you'll find it clearer when you get round to it :) Kingsif (talk) 03:30, 14 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Lead:

  • Could another sentence be added to the first paragraph describing when he was active and giving a brief introduction to what kind of performing he did before the rest of the lead jumps into the details?
  • "he unusually created films" – Could this be reworded?
  • Actuality isn't mentioned anywhere in the body.

Filmmaking:

  • Who is Ricardo Rouffet, and how did they know each other?
  • "with Ruiz Chapellín claiming Veyre was in breach" – per MOS:CLAIM this is written in a way that can cast doubt on Ruiz Chapellín.
  • The article doesn't explain who Azuaga García, Sueiro Villanueva, or Elisa Martínez de Badra are, or why their opinions are relevant.
  • "in this film" – In what film?

Kingsif Sorry for the delay, here are notes on the other sections. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 🛸 20:05, 30 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I've addressed all these comments and done a little extra tweaking. Is there anything more, I think the lead in particular, to address? Kingsif (talk) 10:05, 2 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
allikas: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Carlos_Ruiz_Chapell%C3%ADn