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"The period of Sasanian rule is considered a high point in Iranian history,[15] and in many ways was the peak of ancient Iranian culture before the Muslim conquest and subsequent Islamisation"

According to whom? Citation 15 leads to nothing. I have read the book cited below and see nothing that would support this sentence.

https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/arabic-thought-in-the-liberal-age-17981939/7A4EC7064730DD272E74D76237EED2DE

this is a made up citation. Also very easy to tell by a historian, as if you're comparing dynasties, the peak of Iranian History would have been well over a millennia before said empire, during the rule of the Achaemenid empire. Moreover, to randomly picture the Sasanian empire as the "peak of ancient Iranian culture" with no or citation/evidence is silly, and thus unless provided with said evidence, this sentence, as written, should be ignored and removed. Freeyourmines (talk) 03:48, 25 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Isnt that the wrong source youve linked? Also larger territorial extent does not neccesarily imply peak of culture. I will check it later. HistoryofIran (talk)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. ~ Amkgp 💬 15:21, 25 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The user @Wario-Man: has deleted my entire addition that shows with valid references on each sentence that historians acknowledge the factor of Kurdish tribes in the multi-ethnic Sassanian empire. He didn't leave me any notification behind, and not any chance to rectify any possible mistakes. His only hints were WP:FRINGE and WP:OR. WP:Fringe says that something is a fringe theory. The references that I added to each sentence are fully valuable sources that contain a not-often-represented information, yet that does not devalue my information as a theory. The sentences were clearly referenced. His second claim is that my references "refer to material such as facts, allegations, and ideas—for which no reliable, published sources exist". If that would be the case then the user @Wario-Man: needed himself to show by proper research that my valid sources are not sufficiently based.

About my question to him for further elaboration he wrote however in his talk page:

My edit summary is crystal clear.[20] See WP:BURDEN. You added something to the article and I reverted it. So you should prove why your edits were OK and my revert was wrong. Open a new section on Talk:Sasanian Empire and discuss your concerns. I will reply there. --Wario-Man (talk) 03:59, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

He refers here to WP:Burden which is not included in his first reference during the revert. The link leads to a section which is about "Responsibility for providing citations". This makes however no sense as my first addition to the Sassanian page contained flawless sources and already satisfied the requirements. I also intended to work on the little section and add more references and sentences that are very well researched. But I cannot work on it when it gets deleted like that. I ask @Wario-Man: to elaborate the issue and to revert his deletion by himself so I can continuously improve my added section.

RedurMaye (talk) 08:08, 29 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

What valid references?! Your edits[1] were a mix of non-RS, personal opinion, WP:OR, and WP:FRINGE. Let me clarify them for you:

• While the Sassanian empire is a multi-ethnic ruling body, the origin of the first Sassanid kings can be traced back to Kurdish origin.
  • Unsourced, POV, and personal commentary
• According to the Shahname, the great-grandfather of the Sassanid Kings, Sasan, fled eastwards to Persia after a prophecy was made that his descendants would rule Ariana[88][89]. Sasan was described as a herder of camel cattle of one of the feudal lords [90]. Sasan, Ardashir's grandfather, is also said to have married Ram Behesht of the Bazanjan Kurds, who, according to Istakhri, were one of the five Kurdish tribes of Fars. [91]
  • Which one of those claims written by experts or historians? The only legit citation is The Origins and Appearance of the Kurds in Pre-Islamic Iran which should be verified by some experienced editors. Plus not supported by the main articles Sasan and Bazrangi; zero mention of such claims.
• Dahkhoda wrote in his encyclopedia that the father of the Sassanid king (Ardashir) is the Kurdish shepherd named Papak
  • Ali-Akbar Dehkhoda was not a historian. His opinion is WP:FRINGE and non-expert in this case.
• Dr. Rashid Yasemi, a professor at the University of Tehran, states that Sasan, who is the grandfather of Ardashir_I, is from the Kurdish clan of Shwankara (Shabankara) and that the mother of Papak is the daughter of one of the heads of the Kurdish Bazrangi/Bazanjan clans. The home of this clan is the Kurdish region of Fars Province. Yasemi adds that we can conclude that Ardashir_I was Kurdish
  • Gholamreza Rashid-Yasemi is just another non-historian and non-expert.

As I said, the only source that should be reviewed is The Origins and Appearance of the Kurds in Pre-Islamic Iran by John Limbert.[2] I ping some users who can review all of your edits. @HistoryofIran, Kansas Bear, LouisAragon, and Wikaviani: Your thoughts? --Wario-Man (talk) 08:38, 1 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I found John Limbert's work and this is the actual content from the source:

• According to Yasami, not only were the Kurds of Fars a major support of Sassanian power, but Ardashir I, the founder of the empire, was himself a Kurd. He says that Sasan, Ardashir's grandfather, married Ram Behesht of the Bazanjan Kurds...
• Although it is possible that the Kurds of Fars are related to the tribes of Kurdestan, it is more likely that the groups are distinct and that the tribes of Fars are not true Kurds, but Iranian tribes speaking southwest Iranian dialects, perhaps related to mDdern Luri. Such southwest dialects as Luri and Bakhtiari are much more closely related to Persian than to Kurdish. If we reconstruct the ancient linguistic division, then the Kurds of the north spoke a language related to Median--that is, north- west Iranian, and the "Kurds" of the south spoke a language related to Persian, or southwest Iranian...
• Most conclusive of all is the fact that Kurd in the older Persian or Arab sense meant simply nomad with no particular ethnic connotations. In this case, Ardavan V's letter becomes more insulting, since in effect he is calling Ardashir an ignorant nomad. The term was not even restricted to Iranian nomads--accord- ing to a tenth century work, the Persians called the Mesopotamian Arabs the "Kurds of Suristan." Thus it is reasonable (but hardly certain) that the so-called Kurds of Fars of Sassanian times were not true Kurds at all , but were Iranian nomads speaking dialects related to Persian...

What you did is WP:CHERRYPICKING and misrepresentation. So? --Wario-Man (talk) 09:01, 1 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment : The source cited by RedurMaye are :

• Ferdowsi, 1000 years old, clearly outdated.
• Ali-Akbar Dehkhoda, a prominent linguist, no expertise for this topic.
• Gholamreza Rashid-Yasemi, a poet, translator, academic and literary figure, not a historian, thus, no expertise for this topic.
• John Limbert, he owns a Ph.D. in history and Middle Eastern studies, but even this source cannot be considered as being a high quality source, since the author worked mainly as a diplomat and has only a few books published, no expertise about the Sasanian era. Besides, even if one had to consider this last source as being reliable, RedurMaye misrepresented what it actually says, as Wario-Man said above.---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 14:06, 1 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Claiming that the Sasanians were Kurds is really some next level WP:FRINGE and WP:OR. Kurd was not even an ethnicity during that period. Ardashir's father was a dynast, not a shepherd, see; [3] --HistoryofIran (talk) 14:18, 1 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Wikaviani: Limbert cited Yasami/Yasemi's claims (fringe theory stuff). --Wario-Man (talk) 14:28, 1 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, this is why i said that Limbert was not a high quality source despite his Ph.D. in history.---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 14:40, 1 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the detailed replies. Due to studies I couldn't reply till now. @Wario-Man: states that my introduction in the new section called "Relation of Kurdish tribes to the Sassanian Empire" was a personal opinion and had no base. My introduction said "While the Sassanian empire is a multi-ethnic ruling body, the origin of the first Sassanid kings can be traced back to Kurdish origin." The claim by the editor is entirely groundless because a myriad of sources acknowledge the Sassanian empire as a multi-ethnic unit. My analysis was meant to include peoples into the frame of the empire and not to nullify them. Therefore I based my introduction on the various reports about how the empire was functioning. One single google search discloses already this sentence "The universality of the Sasanian Empire, unlike the Eastern Roman Empire, was not translated into a Christian order but rather an order with Zoroastrianism at its core, but also with a universal multi-ethnic and multi-religious aspect" out of the book "Sasanian Persia: The Rise and Fall of an Empire" from Touraj Daryaee, a holder of Ph.D. in History, (ISBN-13: 978-1780763781).

Wario-Man continues to question the source about the grandfather of the Sassanid king Sasan by the words "Which one of those claims written by experts or historians?". The editor ignores the Shahname which is an internationally recognized historical heritage and multiply cited source by academics, and questions the validity of "The Origins and Appearance of the Kurds in Pre-Islamic Iran" by John Limbert, and says it "should be verified by some experienced editors." The book from John Limbert - another Phd graduate in history - has been peer-reviewed on countless scholarly platforms and verified. The claim is confusingly baseless.

Then the editor raises attention to "...Bazrangi; zero mention of such claims." I will re-read the sources and will be able to satisfy all questions. In my knowledge the tribe is mentioned at least in the book of John Limbert. But maybe the way of spelling differed. I will check it for later reference how it was spelled. Still, the content about the Bazancan tribe is correct again. I haven't added all information yet and wanted to enhance the new chapter. There are plentiful of references.

The editor Wario-Man stated that Gholamreza Rashid-Yasemi wasn't reliable either despite him being an Academic. Here is an description of Academia from wiki itself: "An academy (Attic Greek: Ἀκαδήμεια; Koine Greek Ἀκαδημία) is an institution of secondary or tertiary higher learning, research , or honorary membership. Academia is the worldwide group composed of professors and researchers at institutes of higher learning." The information about Papak is not his own, but he is merely one of the historians researching the underrepresented information of Sassanian history. Multiple acknowledged researchers discuss that topic. The sources that are cited are the literal letters of kings in the Sassanian empire. The letter included directly elucidating comments addressed to Ardeshir like "You have been your enemy and brought your death, you, Kurdish man who has brought up in the tents of the Kurds. Who authorized you to wear a crown?". This cannot narrowed down to researchers. I want to add all the information that add to these details.

Lastly @Wario-Man: mentions WP:CHERRYPICKING and claims my added chapter fulfills that breach of rule. The first paragraph clearly says that "selecting information without including contradictory or significant qualifying information from the same source and consequently misrepresenting what the source says", which already contradicts the claim of the editor. I do not base my text on one single source but combined different sources. Shahname, the main source of Iranian history, was one of them. This already excludes the possibility of cherry picking.

The claim "Your edits[1] were a mix of non-RS, personal opinion, WP:OR, and WP:FRINGE" is entirely baseless when looked at my explanation above. The ethnic origin of the Sassanian kings is no Fringe Theory either but simply underrepresented. The mentioning of the tribal origin of the Sassanian kings is not at all meant to claim the empire as a Kurdish one. An empire is never rooted in an ethnicity alone and especially when the borders are so far away it makes only sense that the elements stem from different peoples. But it is from a sociological point necessary to acknowledge the complex nature of civilization. Presidents of today's world too, are entirely of different origins. Kings of various countries are intermarried and even foreign (such as in Sweden). Not allowing the Kurdish factor to be understood in a representative Wikipedia article only limits the scope of information.

Lastly, let me comment on this line from @Wikaviani:: "Ferdowsi, 1000 years old, clearly outdated.". Ferdowsi is THE Herodot of Iranian history, cited by literally all academics, and his works are world heritage. I am doing historical researches myself and am versed in multiple languages that help me reading through researches of too many researchers. I severely doubt the academic seriousness of the editor and request the restoration of my added chapter about Kurdish relations to the Sassanian empire. Wikaviani's comment "...if one had to consider this last source as being reliable, RedurMaye misrepresented what it actually says, as Wario-Man said above" on John Limbert's thoughts are welcome to improve my addition to the article, but is by no means a reason to misinterpret and delete my entry.

@HistoryofIran: goes next level and says "Claiming that the Sasanians were Kurds is really some next level WP:FRINGE and WP:OR". This is a unprofessional claim that contradicts the content of my addition which by no means claims that "Sasanians were Kurds". My first line explained all too clear that the term Sassanian needs to be seen properly as a description for an empire with many ethnicities in it. My clear purpose was to trace the origin of the Sassanian "king". As today's presidents are of different origins, the empires of the past were as well. The hereditary factor is another story here. The second comment "Kurd was not even an ethnicity during that period" is derailing the topic on baseless grounds. What the editor will mean is that Kurds were no unified kingdom or state on ethnic ground. The Kurdish ethnicity however is being acknowledged by reports of countless tribes that all were named in the same way back since the times talked about by Xenophone and older. The statement has a nationalistic idea and does not contribute to the discussion here. Researches on the origin of the Kurds are another topic.

In the end I ask the editors to support the addition of my entry based on these points: - My entry doesn't replace any information but was placed in a separate section - The content is well sourced by Wikipedia rules, and context-wise neutral - The content adds a valuable information on the flexibility of the ancient Iranian empires and enables a view from a sociological perspective. I ask the editors to help perfection the section about Kurdish relation to the Sassanian Empire instead of deleting it from onset. RedurMaye (talk) 22:37, 15 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No, unlike you, I'm basing my statement on reliable sources.

Here's one example:

It should be remembered that “Kurd” in the sources of the 4th-5th/10th-11th centuries refers to all the transhumants of the Zagros region including the Lors

Also; (Richard Frye,"The Golden age of Persia", Phoenix Press, 1975. Second Impression December 2003. pp 111:) "Tribes always have been a feature of Persian history, but the sources are extremely scant in reference to them since they did not 'make' history. The general designation 'Kurd' is found in many Arabic sources, as well as in Pahlavi book on the deeds of Ardashir the first Sassanian ruler, for all nomads no matter whether they were linguistically connected to the Kurds of today or not. The population of Luristan, for example, was considered to be Kurdish, as were tribes in Kuhistan and Baluchis in Kirman"

"Most conclusive of all is the fact that Kurd in the older Persian or Arab sense meant simply nomad with no particular ethnic connotations. In this case, Ardavan V's letter becomes more insulting, since in effect he is calling Ardashir an ignorant nomad" page 48

What you're trying to prove is pure pseudo-history, which doesn't belong here. The fact that you claim Kurds existed since the time of Xenephone (Xenophon?) makes it pretty clear to me what kind of user we're dealing with here. It is kind of ironic that you're the one to accuse me of nationalistic remarks and that "I'm going next level". I'm out. --HistoryofIran (talk) 22:39, 15 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"Ferdowsi is THE Herodot of Iranian history" Herodotus is all but a reliable source for Greek/Persian history, he's the guy who claims that the Persians were 2000000 against 300 Greeks at the battle of Thermopylae ... I agree with HistoryofIran's above comment, your comments clearly show that you are not here to build an encyclopedia and as such, we're done here.---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 22:52, 15 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]