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Part of the caption of the 'Seafire' photograph states: "...the Royal Naval Air Station at Dekhelia, Egypt...".

Is this correct? I know of a 'Dekhelia' in Cyprus, but have never heard of a 'Dekhelia' in Egypt. I can find nothing on Wikipedia on an Egyptian Dekhelia, either RASAM (talk) 21:05, 15 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

With photo captions, I work on the 'what (or who), where and when' principal. So, not knowing the full story on 'Dekhelia', (see above), I did a bit of trawling and found that while most of the information on the internet is indeed about the Dekhelia in Cyprus, (in a variety of spellings), there was a brief mention, in a memoir-driven site, of a Dekhalia near Alexandria in Eygpt.

It just goes to show, one should not always take what one believes at face value.

RASAM (talk) 10:55, 16 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Much of this article and many other Wikipedia articles on the Cold War RN and RNZN classes and some NZR and USN a few USN articles are written by your's truly, a former leader writer and NBR commentator and member of the Watersider union. I have a B.Com and 2/2 and 3rd class degrees like Tony Blair. There are attempts to block my editing by ageing retired officers and ratings. My view of this, is the original complaint stem from South Canterbury where I grew up and my parents were school teachers. During the final unsatistactory years of my fathers career, he was very unpopular, teaching English to mid and low streams, notably, 5.6 and 5.7 were very embittered as they never grasped they had zero chance of passing SC English. My fathers theory was SC English in the 1970s was essentially an IQ test ( 85% correlation) the student variance was up to 10 marks in 50% of cases and made no difference with the rest regardless of teacher effort. This largely farmer, former low grade constituency and their other farming and educational, complaints and recycled myths are the reasons for National converting the regional electorates from safe Labour seat to huge National majorities. Also in the area are the farms once owned by the Elworthy family the former British CDS whose career involved being Number 2 to, Bomber Harris, and in 1963 Air Marshall of the RAF, at the time Curtis Le May was Chief of the USAF. Elworthy and his mates were prominent in the anti nuclear Plains group of former British landed aristocrats formed in North Otago/SC to opposed the Lange - Clark governments nuclear ship ban. But I rather think, I first came to the Elworthy, attention when during the lunch break at the Waimate CC in March/ April 1982, I monopolised the hour for several days, explaining my estimate of the real probabilty the entire RN task force would be destroyed by, the Daggers, A-4s and Entendards of the Argentinian Navy and Air Force. For the previous six months upon completing my MA, I had been completing a non published draft on the RNZN and RN which calculated that Seacat, Seaslug and the various 4.5 guns used by the RN/RNZN would not shoot down a single modern jet aircraft (mathematically, it was close to impossible) and I also believed the RNs, AW was 4th class, cf with the 1960s and doubted if the Mk 46 torpedo was useful, given a short non corrected range and dubious speed claim. I said that the Argentinian pilots would in some cases be as good as Gonzales, Reutemann and Fangio ( 3/15 best ever) and they would pray with the Argentine and Nazi flags on their legs before takeoff, like a Bok Rugby team of the mid 20C. I was almost right. So I'm sure Id already enraged the Elworthy clan by then as they had a feudal paternalistic view of SC and NZ as a basic rural agricultural society and in the early 80s were at their peak, Peter as head of Fed Farmers, Jonathon in the Cabinet and former CDS, Lord Elworthy back from London to the manor born. I have never seen the job of defence writer as PR, protecting the image and jobs of ratings or boositing recruitment. I became interested in freelance journalism to make money, and specifically in 1983 to oppose Muldoon's disastorous low grade mass recuitment policies for the military and railways.From the early 1980s I intended a Navy for OPV patrol and protection and blockade around Southern Ocean resources and fish with warships half OPV and half light frigate like the 21C 10 Holland class OPVs. Most of all that meant with crews of 50-90 effective discipline and an intergrated service would evolve. The opponents of the Royalist the Asian UN MFAT officials like Corner and the former Reserve officer Phipps seem to have little understanding of post WW2 warfare. The twin DP 4 inch manual was useless fro AA postwar while C89 twin channel 5.25s, was still relevant. The fitting of US fire control to RN cruisers Ceylon, Bermuda and Gambia, twin 4 inch mounts in 1956 was an interim means to provide a secondary LA control, as the RN Colony and Minotaur had only a single 974 LA DCT. The Royalist offered effective twin channel 275/ Mk 6 air and surface fire and was a 'prototype' 50/5000 ton cruiser destroyers intended for the post war RN in 1949, cf the RAN or RN Daring destroyers and the Venezuela and Chilean derivatives. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.48.175.44 (talk) 01:01, 9 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The procurement of the Royalist and its role during Suez and the confrontation, and the desire of Ministry of Foreign Affairs then, MFAT since 2011,nb the current, NZ Ambassador to the US, Tim Grosser to destroy historical truth and realign NZ with the third world and China is a key issue. Published NZ academic work based on the papers, files and letters of NZ Foreign Affairs officials eg,Frank Corner is in complete variance with the view of USN and RN, Naval Historians and Naval architects, I became a 'anon' wiki editor to maintain historical truth for NZ and the western officer class. The ambiguous role of the Elworthy family, in British and NZ and SC is central.

I see a lot of words, no sources, and a hint of conspiracy theorizing. If you have a point get to it and give reliable sources. GraemeLeggett (talk) 11:46, 11 December 2016 (UTC) I think the basic facts of Lord Elworthy's career are so well known they hardly need sourcing ( his ferocity can also be seen in command of UK occupation forces in the Rhine in the early 1950s in repressing 'iron fist in the velvet glove' shadow unreformed pro Nazi figures and as CDS and his handling of the Northern Ireland situation in 1970-1 at the time of the troubles in Londonderry). Even a decade he powerfully expressed his hostility to the IRA and their American allies among who he included EMK- who he frequently expressed his distaste in speeeches in Timaru from his first return visits in the 1970s.. in terms of the Royalist the standard texts, RN Naval architects, D K Browns, Post war RN Naval design; Norman Friedman, British Cruisers WW2 and After regard the Royalist as an effectively modernised twin channel warship for air and surface warfare with good sensors and communication if not living quarters for the crew and that was the view of many officers who served on it. Pugsley in his work on the 'Confrontation' describes the Royalist AA as much more effective in exercises than modernised RN postwar cruisers, Newcastle and Birmingham. In Pugsley's view C89 was a warship too complex for NZ Government and Military (who see the issue in employment, trade and internal political terms). Although Frank Corner is seen as a stalwart establishment diplomat, staunch in his support for Anzus, an entirely opposite interpretation is possible and widely expressed in articles and publication even those sponsored by NZIIA today, that the voice he expressed on the beltway and DC circle was not the real one, and that in fact his work against Operation Muskeeter, and in his open backing of opposition leader Kirk from 1971, amounted to close to 'treason'. The praise and support Kirk received in the USA in 1973 and the incorporation of HMS Canterbury (ironically after its anti nuclear protest cruise to Muroroa)- briefly in a USN West Coast DE squadron in 1974-5 ( until withdrawn by RD Muldoon) was to the Nixon and Ford administration, simply a fingers up to the Whitlam, ALP, Labour government regarded by the Nixon administration, CIA director and ADF as one of the 3 most serious global threats to US security. ^[1] New Zealand was generally too insignificant to count either way with the US and to a surprising degree NZ defense procurement decisions were made due to subtle and not so subtle pressure from the US/UK to buy equipment ( C89, Canberra B2/20, Orions,Anzac frigates and F-16) that would add and fill gaps in the defense of Australia. To our main allies NZ forces role was just to stand and add to supplement the defense of Australia. While it is dangerous to venture a judgement, but I would say that generally the RNZN museums interpretation of the nations naval history and its key ships and officers was far more partial, person and prejudiced than my interpretation. Their alternative view was somewhat cleaned up for the 75th anniversary in Nov 2016 but still managed to exclude most of the more significant post war RNZN officers in personalities in favour of those, who were caught or declared themselves, too be indulging, too deeply. Fairly obviously I can not provide ,doco sources for my assessment of the ability of the classes my father taught ,as there based on studying IQ records and headmaster assessments and articles, 'left around, seen over the shoulder, found down the back of bookcases and hearing general staff comment' which in total enables a very accurate picture. In terms of the Waimate CC comment the people present at the lunch and morning meal break conversations on the Falklands situation were Wayne Rout-- County Clerk and his mistress former Qantas PR Jane Hewson, Mark Dacombe, Deputy C Clerk ( former CC of Chatham Is and later West Auckland County Clerk, under Harvey in the 21C, many clerks, professional engineers and their assistants and Mr Burridge, Housing Inspector, who drove the fastest Scottish taxi to ever run- every day Timaru to Waimate (30 miles / 50km ) in 18 minutes, 170kmh often on the clock in the Mitshubushi sports car, we were once chased by Alan McCall, former mechanic to Clark, Hume and Ickx and from the 3 mile mark ( out of Timaru the first 7 miles is a switchback fast reverse camber, over the old Volcanic mountain) which rather resembles Clermont Ferrand and Bathurst until it was realigned after Helen Clark's over the yellow line fast ride from Waimate to the Christchurch test in 2006 ) and Makikihi pulling out three minutes on McCall driving a 911. A year after the Falklands war I received mail from my aunt from Chapel Hill/ Carborro , NC ( she had been married to several MI6and CIA intelligence operatives and professors and her son who was a midshipman ,Sheffield, rt Cdr S. Atkinson ,now Prof Engineering Sydney Uni). Both these family members reported that both the US war college and RAF assessments had been threat the RN task force was likely to be destroyed on the basis of of war games. However my assessment of this was made in April 1982 and was not due to UK media leaks.[reply]

Hmmm, the politics is all very interesting but this was supposed to be an article about the ship, HMNZS Royalist. Pity it lost its way, as this looks like a very interesting and good looking ship, albeit unfortunately let down by unreliable tired old engines and boilers!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.57.75.173 (talk) 04:05, 25 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This talk contribution, or retalliatory broadside is by Mr R.F.F. Miles. TBHS 1970-74, Otago university 75-6, Vic Wellington 77-8. Holdiday jobs as Post Office computer installation coder 75-6 and Waterside Commission caretaker 77-8. University of Canterbury 80-81. MA Hons (1982). Employed bu Univeristy Otago Anthropology Dept and its Business Dev as REsearcher for Waitaki Joint Planning Committee re Lower Waitaki Power Dev and 83-85 Timaru Herald as Defence Commnetator and Editorial Writer- key NZ articles re RNZN submarine proposal, Nuclear ships and supported ANzus an nuclear armed ship access as editorial writer. Interviewed for Ministry of Defence Advisory Officer positions 1980 and 3/84 Interviewed by AO Christopher Rosonawoski and Maori Colonel. South position on advice, editors Timaru Herald and interviewed probably on recn, RNZN .Director of PLans on basis or articles opposing RNZN submarine project. Unknown to MOD, I had discussed these issues with a former RNZN Captain and Devonport base Commander, who was having difficulty having his rather naval arguments against the submarine project published, ie I did not think arguing the way Cpt J. Coward, approached these issues, or the RNZN oppositon view that diesel subs would only be of use to defend Cook Straight, were effective or constructive, in any media reality. In the 21C have added several more university degrees in University of Canterbury B.Com(2005) and B.Hons papers in History, supervisor Bennett 2006 accepted degree 2011. I am also the well known Anon editor of much of the Cold War RN/ RNZN cruiser articles for the pre 1975 age and have significantly to articles on post war RN warships and those of other navies, but not in relation to 21C issues or ships other than re OPVs. I am also an extensive contributor on some railway and even a few Rugby subject and slso some USA issues re warships, submarines and some currently relevant' strategic ones, eg Alaska's, 1968 issues

The Royalist was modernised as a purely interim ship to provide some real AA/AD capability until the Tiger class cruisers and first batch of 4 County DDGs were completed. The modernisation or facelift was only intended to last 6 years and the RNZN records show the accuracy of the main armament and its fire ocntrol, substantially reducing from 1963. The Dido and Improved Didos were essentially war emergencey cruisers not really suited or offering much crew comfort post war. The Royalist was selected for modernisation because of extra features for communication with the fleet air arm aircraft and the AIO office, intended for the 2nd 4.5 Dido before its loss in 1943. More effective RN/USN missile armed destroyers/guided missile cruisers were not available until the mid 60s for the USN ( these issues are well covered in P. Jones and J. Goldrick. Searching for a Solution. The RAN and the Acquisition of a surface to air missile capability. and the earlier ' Buying the DDGs Reflections of the RAN. 1991. Kangaroo) and 1980 in the UK when SWawolf and Sea Dart became available. The Royalist continued in service not only because of the delay in ordering a third frigate, but becasue of the greater unrelaibility and problems of the Tigers gun armament and becasue the Hull and engiens of HMS Lion has so deteriorated during its long delayed construction, it effectively blew its boilers in 1963 and return to England.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.48.175.44 (talk) 02:57, 19 June 2018

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