Talk:Richard Nixon: Difference between revisions

Content deleted Content added
Wehwalt (talk | contribs)
Line 143: Line 143:
::{{Reply|Wehwalt}} What is your assessment of the conversation at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2016 September 27]] in the section "President Nixon"?
::{{Reply|Wehwalt}} What is your assessment of the conversation at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2016 September 27]] in the section "President Nixon"?
:::My assessment of it is that it is basically the same issue. It's a question of at what point should readers be diverted to the presidency article. Should we not combine the discussions, since your hatnote is basically auxiliary to the question of the redirect?--[[User:Wehwalt|Wehwalt]] ([[User talk:Wehwalt|talk]]) 13:12, 28 September 2016 (UTC)
:::My assessment of it is that it is basically the same issue. It's a question of at what point should readers be diverted to the presidency article. Should we not combine the discussions, since your hatnote is basically auxiliary to the question of the redirect?--[[User:Wehwalt|Wehwalt]] ([[User talk:Wehwalt|talk]]) 13:12, 28 September 2016 (UTC)
::::{{Reply|Wehwalt}} I'm confused by your response. If I search for "President Nixon", then which page should I be redirected to - the "[[Presidency of Richard Nixon]]" article or to the "[[Richard Nixon]]" article?

Revision as of 13:54, 28 September 2016

Featured articleRichard Nixon is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.
Main Page trophyThis article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on January 9, 2013.
On this day... Article milestones
DateProcessResult
June 25, 2006Good article nomineeNot listed
August 30, 2008Good article nomineeNot listed
December 29, 2008Good article nomineeNot listed
January 26, 2009Good article nomineeListed
March 3, 2009Peer reviewReviewed
August 1, 2011Peer reviewReviewed
August 23, 2011Featured article candidatePromoted
On this day... Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on August 9, 2004, August 9, 2005, August 9, 2006, August 9, 2007, August 9, 2008, August 9, 2010, December 21, 2010, August 9, 2011, and August 9, 2014.
Current status: Featured article

Template:Vital article

notes


Looking for citation for religion in infobox

Concerning religion in infoboxes (religion in the body of the article has different rules):

From WP:BLPCAT: "Categories regarding religious beliefs (or lack of such) should not be used unless the subject has publicly self-identified with the belief or orientation in question, and the subject's beliefs are relevant to their public life or notability, according to reliable published sources" ... "These principles apply equally to lists, navigation templates, and Infobox statements".

From WP:CAT/R: "Categories regarding religious beliefs or lack of such beliefs of a living person should not be used unless the subject has publicly self-identified with the belief in question (see WP:BLPCAT), either through direct speech or through actions like serving in an official clerical position for the religion."

Per WP:LOCALCON, a local consensus on an article talk page can not override the overwhelming (75% to 25%) consensus at Template talk:Infobox/Archive 11#RfC: Religion in infoboxes that nonreligions cannot be listed in the religion entry of any infobox.

Richard Nixon is not a living or recently dead person, so the rules can be relaxed if there are other reliable sources, but I am not seeing them either, and self-identification is the gold standard for inclusion of religion in any article. So does anyone have a citation where Richard Nixon self-identified as a Quaker? Lacking that, does anyone have a citation where anyone else called the adult Richard Nixon a member of the Quaker religion? --Guy Macon (talk) 22:36, 28 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Wouldn't a short google search given you some background? Yes he did, he was raised Quaker and went to Whittier, and could have claimed exemption from World War II service on religious grounds. I'm not at home so can't get you exact citations, but if you consult his memoirs, RN, he speaks extensively of his Quaker upbringing. And in Six Crises, I believe he mentions going to meeting in Portland, Oregon at the height of the Fund Crisis that culminated in the Checkers Speech. Whether he wrote of it or someone else did, the point is, he went. Nixon's actual adherence to Quaker observances undoubtedly decreased after his mother died in the 1960s, but that's true of a lot of people in a lot of religions. From what I heard at the Nixon Library the third or fourth trip there, the Sunday morning services at the White House were so nondenominational that his friend Murray Chotiner, a Jew, didn't mind showing up. But there's no question he self-identified as Quaker for at least part of his adult life and never formally left.--Wehwalt (talk) 23:28, 28 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
In his 1960 presidential campaign, Nixon staff prepared a detailed memo explaining the importance of Quakerism to his beliefs: see H. Larry Ingle (2015). Nixon's First Cover-up: The Religious Life of a Quaker President. University of Missouri Press. p. 90. I think that solves the issue of whether religion was important enough to mention here. He also maintained his membership in a local Quaker church. Outsiders, as Rev Martin Luther King Jr, considered him a Quaker. King said that "Nixon happens to be a Quaker and there are very few Quakers who are prejudiced from a racial point of view." [ibid p 90] Rjensen (talk) 00:01, 29 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
That's good enough for me. Sources don't get much better than that. Thanks! --Guy Macon (talk) 16:52, 29 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Middle initial in infobox's heading

Look folks, see

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs· FENS · JSTOR · TWL
Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs· FENS · JSTOR · TWL.

Established professional journalistic practice, per style manuals of the AP, NYT, ad infinitum, is to render a subject's name in that indivual prefers. Thus it is WP's practice to render this in the header to the infobox when it conflicts with the shortened form the subject is generally known to the public by (as in wp:Common name); eg see Template:Infobox person: " If middle initials are specified (or implied) by the lead of the article, and are not specified separately in the birth_name field, include them here."--Hodgdon's secret garden (talk) 15:21, 29 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Marine aide is a lieutenant colonel, not a colonel

Marine aide is a lieutenant colonel, not a colonel in the RFK stadium picture. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.28.102.27 (talk) 17:50, 14 July 2016 (UTC) He retired as a colonel, but appears to be a major in the photo -- the oak leaves look gold to me. CsikosLo (talk) 19:29, 17 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Lead section

Hello. In this recent edit, I attempted to copyedit and expand the lead section by adding who he was (i.e. an American lawyer) in addition to serving as the president, using Ronald Reagan (an FA), as a model. However, it was reverted. Since I don't want to get involved in an edit war, and also in accordance with the WP:BRD process, I am opening a discussion here to get thoughts about the matter: is it necessary to mention the fact that he was also an American lawyer in the lead section in addition to serving as the president? Thanks, Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 19:24, 2 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The fact that Nixon was American is implicit in his being U.S. president. His being a lawyer is basically secondary to everything else, since he is entirely known as a politician/public figure. Thus, WP:LEDE is satisfied. The issue is in trying to make everything fit a format of "John Doe was a (nationality) (profession) who ..." That is not necessary and it often comes off strained and stiff. This is a featured article so people have thought about the prose and a deep copyedit of the lede paragraph is probably not necessary.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:54, 2 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I understand. I was only trying to help. Thanks, Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 23:47, 2 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hatnote at top of page

Wehwalt I added to

because of the discussion at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2016 September 27 in the section "President Nixon" and the removal of the Template:About on Presidency of Richard Nixon by User:Graham11 on 14:58, 31 July 2016. Unfortunately, some editors seem to think that the biographical article is the primary topic of the presidency of RN. Users need to know that the primary topic of the Richard Nixon article is biographical and the primary topic of the Presidency of Richard Nixon article is restricted to his presidency. There is currently confusion surrounding this issue. Mitchumch (talk) 12:51, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The effect of the hatnote is confusing. It risks the reader concluding that for any information about Nixon's presidency, they should go to the presidency article. The proper place to put such a tag is at the beginning of the account of Nixon's presidency. I do not say the presidency article is in any way substandard, but we should not divert readers from a FA, sight unseen.--Wehwalt (talk) 12:55, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Wehwalt: What is your assessment of the conversation at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2016 September 27 in the section "President Nixon"?
My assessment of it is that it is basically the same issue. It's a question of at what point should readers be diverted to the presidency article. Should we not combine the discussions, since your hatnote is basically auxiliary to the question of the redirect?--Wehwalt (talk) 13:12, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Wehwalt: I'm confused by your response. If I search for "President Nixon", then which page should I be redirected to - the "Presidency of Richard Nixon" article or to the "Richard Nixon" article?