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I've GOT the Flans book, and nowhere does it state that Dunbar didn't get along with Steve Perry. That may have been the case, but attributing that to Robyn Flans' Journey book is wrong; Flans does state that Dunbar wasn't happy with the change & with stuff that the band *in general* were pulling, but Perry is not specifically mentioned. Full text & articles of the book are here: http://holyshrineofjourney.com/flans.html Zenfrodo (talk) 19:06, 11 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Excellent catch. Dave Golland (talk) 19:44, 11 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Not checking over the whole entry, but this stood out on first read: ", Don't Believing became a huge succes after the Sopranos and GLEE and a series of tours with the present line-up. And that leading to the top-selling catalog track in iTunes history on 2009. ^[1][2][3]"

The vandal can't even spell correctly!

Added: User "Wagino 20100516" please don't revert text *without checking the content*. You're reverting text that isn't even proper English were it spelled correctly (which it isn't). It's obvious vandalism, and you auto-revert and send me a msg saying *I'm* vandalizing the entry? I don't think so. Put a modicum of effort in, mate, and at least read the revision. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.93.163.20 (talk) 08:30, 24 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Well done. Dave Golland (talk) 17:45, 26 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That Arnel Pineda is in the infobox and Steve Perry is not is absurd. john k (talk) 07:28, 28 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, but from what I can tell, it is the Wikipedia standard to list only current members in the infobox if the band is still active. Steve Perry was the lead singer of every one of the band's top 40 hits (unless one of the excellent tracks from Arrival got in, or "After All these Years" charted). So it would seem logical that he rate the infobox. But then that begs the question: by what standard do we determine who rates the infobox? If Steve Perry, why not Gregg Rolie also? What about Steve Smith? At some point there would have to be a cutoff, but who would decide where?

I was editing the E.R. page when that show ended three years ago, and as I recall, the current cast (Angela Bassett, John Stamos, etc.) was in the infobox until the final episode aired, at which point the infobox reverted to the original cast (George Clooney, Anthony Edwards, etc.). But even if that were to happen were Journey to break up today, the original members did not include Steve Perry. Looking at the current E.R. page, I see that every actor who made primary cast over the fifteen seasons is now listed; the same could presumably apply to Journey, which would include Perry.

Why not now? Some would reasonably argue that a five-member band which includes only two original members (three from their height of popularity), and not their longtime and clearly most-popular frontman, is no longer the same band. If you replace the head and legs, is it still the same person?

I must confess, I don't know anymore. Maybe the infobox should simply include all eight former members. What does everyone else think?

Dave Golland (talk) 04:38, 29 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

My view is that we exercise jugment in each individual case, and list the most important members, as revealed in reliable sources. The idea that NPOV only allows us to use the same rigid formula for every band seems deeply flawed to me. john k (talk) 15:09, 29 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I vote for all current and former members but not the touring or session musicians. This would include thirteen names. I also think the list should be in order of the date joined the band, with the original five alphabetical. Dave Golland (talk) 21:11, 30 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Also no managers. Dave Golland (talk) 21:13, 30 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That would seem reasonable. john k (talk) 03:43, 4 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The page wouldn't let me remove "current," so I just listed the eight musicians who toured and recorded with Journey as "past members." Dave Golland (talk) 13:35, 8 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The page currently has two pics of the band: one from the current era and one from the Augeri era. It would be great is someone has one from the Perry era that can become part of CreativeCommons. Anyone? Dave Golland (talk) 13:51, 8 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Best, --Discographer (talk) 18:18, 22 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'm a bit confused about the status applied to certain band members in the members section lower down the page. Randy Jackson is given official status despite the article saying he was hired on a session basis for the album and continued to act on a stand-in basis during the tour. Prairie Prince and Jeff Scott Soto are listed as "touring musicians", yet the article clearly states that Soto "officially" replaced Augeri as vocalist and the Prince is more or less referred to as a founding member. The members section currently suggests that Journey were formed as a four-piece without an official drummer, but the written content of the article doesn't indicate the same. Remember, just because someone didn't perform on any studio recording doesn't mean they were never officially in the band.