Websites: Computing Low‑importance

This article is part of WikiProject Websites, an attempt to create and link together articles about the major websites on the web. To participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page.WebsitesWikipedia:WikiProject WebsitesTemplate:WikiProject WebsitesWebsites Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the importance scale. This article is supported by WikiProject Computing.

Internet culture Low‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Internet culture, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of internet culture on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Internet cultureWikipedia:WikiProject Internet cultureTemplate:WikiProject Internet cultureInternet culture Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale. WikiProject Internet culture To-do: Here are some tasks awaiting attention: Article requests : View all requested internet culture articles Expand : Pick an article from here or here Photo : Category:Internet culture articles needing images Stubs : All stubs are located here Other : Category:Internet self-classification codes (!?); Try to get YouTube to FA; Tag all articles you find with {{WikiProject Internet culture}} See also Category:Internet culture articles needing attention

{{Controversial}} should not be used on pages subject to the contentious topic procedure. Please remove this template. Template:Not a forum

Archives

Archive 1 Archive 2 Archive 3 Archive 4 Archive 5 Archive 6

Seeing as the site came out of that might be some thing useful to add down there?Nbisbo (talk) 01:59, 29 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The article now states that Kiwi Farms discusses online figures and communities it deems "lolcows" without saying anything more about what the latter term means. Someone who looks up the forum without being familiar with it already is likely to be confused by this, so adding a definition of 'lolcow' could be useful, especially since Lolcow just redirects here. One way to do this would be to just use the forum's own definition (on their site, archived here; by WP:ABOUTSELF this seems to be a reliable source for the forum's usage of the term) and append it to the first sentence thus: ... figures and communities it deems "lolcows", or "people and groups whose eccentric or foolish behavior can be "milked" for amusement and laughs." (followed by the appropriate citation) - 73.195.249.93 (talk) 02:43, 6 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

We've got the definition at wikt:lolcow so I added it in. Thanks. Primefac (talk) 12:37, 6 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 02:08, 17 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The Kiwi Farms podcast has been hosted on Apple Podcasts and Spotify since February 2019, holding a 4.9-star rating on the former.^[1][2] 2601:281:CC01:2320:69BF:1E3:7170:5BC (talk) 01:58, 17 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment: WP:INHERITWEB must be heeded here. It appears the show may have notability warranting a brief note in the article born of briefly having a popularity ranking on Spotify last year (https://chartable.com/podcasts/mad-at-the-internet). --BananaYesterday (talk) 02:03, 17 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  Are there any references other than chartable that say anything about this? Unless there are, I do agree that INHERITWEB would keep it from being added. Primefac (talk) 10:22, 17 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hello

Another suicide is directly attributed to kiwi farms.

Please find suicide note here https://kotaku.com/the-brilliant-snes-emulator-creator-known-as-near-has-d-1847182851/amp

Please find the victims friends statement here https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/12pOhaaFh998B0kyc5Sm4IhlhIp1c9t5gDNTVVPaiJgI/mobilebasic

Please edit the page accordingly.

Other references to Google are Bsnes developer suicide. (aka Near)

My email equilibrium3@live.co.za 41.146.138.49 (talk) 03:55, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 09:09, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

RIP Near :(. Might have enough coverage, so far it's [1] and [2] — Berrely • ^Talk∕_Contribs 11:13, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I'm going to move this to the talk page per Primefac. @PhotographyEdits, Susmuffin, Berrely, and Blakegripling ph: I think that you are the most recent editors to the page, so tagging you here. ReaderofthePack(formerly Tokyogirl79) (｡◕‿◕｡) 12:24, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• So far the arguments for including it center around coverage while the arguments against center around there being no confirmation of the death, if I understand properly. (I keep this page on my watch list, so thought I'd go ahead and start a discussion to get things rolling.) ReaderofthePack(formerly Tokyogirl79) (｡◕‿◕｡) 12:26, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• Here's the coverage thus far:

1. Kotaku
2. Nintendo Life
3. GameRant

I don't know if I missed anything, I'm trying to stick to just the sites known to be RS on here. ReaderofthePack(formerly Tokyogirl79) (｡◕‿◕｡) 12:29, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

So far there are 2 sources (of which I find reliable) that talk about the sucicide and Kiwi Farm's association, and I'm not sure if there's any specific policy on this. Maybe WP:BLPCRIME is of use? — Berrely • ^Talk∕_Contribs 12:30, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Tentative with GameRant, they often overdramaticise stories, and their sister site, ScreenRant is generally unreliable with BLP related news per WP:RSP — Berrely • ^Talk∕_Contribs 12:34, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Thanks! I don't edit super frequently on game topics so I sometimes forget which are or aren't usable when they pop up so frequently and visibly in a search. ReaderofthePack(formerly Tokyogirl79) (｡◕‿◕｡) 15:34, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

My largest concern here is the lack of confirmation. An individual made a series of posts that implied they were going to take their life, which I don't think anyone is disputing, and which is tragic in its own right. I know we may never get true proof-of-death, which is always an issue with these sorts of topics (be it a natural death, divorce, date of birth, or other things that don't usually get widely reported as part of a person's normal life). This could have been a cry for help, or only an attempt (i.e. they could be in the hospital now recovering), or they backed out at the last minute and are too ashamed to resurface online (the list goes on, and less charitable, so I'll stop there).

There certainly could be room for including it as a "look what Kiwi did to this person" (i.e. the posts, the response, etc), but do we then include every such instance that makes the press? Primefac (talk) 12:40, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe then the wording could be changed to make it sound less definitive? “In June 2021, following a series of posts claiming they were going to take their own life, SNES emulation developer "Near" was reported to have taken their own life due to harrasement received from Kiwi Farms” or something similar to that. — Berrely • ^Talk∕_Contribs 12:44, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I am not sure if it meets our requirements. Kiwi Farms is mentioned in passing in the Kotaku article. Meanwhile, the Nintendo Life article does not actually mention it. Instead, one of the embedded tweets discusses it. I do not feel that there is enough usable content here at this time. ―Susmuffin ^Talk 18:46, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

According to someone close to Near on Twitter, the police confirmed their death. In addition, supposedly the story was reported on Nippon TV, but I do not yet have a source for this. --73.78.27.163 (talk) 13:17, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Problem is, although it's very likely, we have no way of 100% confirming this. — Berrely • ^Talk∕_Contribs 13:19, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hopefully (from an RS perspective) if it's actually on Nippon TV someone else will pick it up. Primefac (talk) 13:20, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Here's a screen capture, if it helps. --73.78.27.163 (talk) 13:32, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

There's another coverage by an RS:

1. Video Games Chronicle

On another note, GameRant is deemed unreliable on WP:VG/S (if it has any relevance here), also with what Berrely has mentioned above. LightKeyDarkBlade (talk) 14:29, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

That's just a rehash of the NintendoLife article, fwiw. Primefac (talk) 14:36, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

That's true. I'm just adding to the list of coverage we have so far. But to a certain extent, you can also argue that the articles are all more and less the same since they're all using almost the same primary sources (i.e. Near's tweets, the mutual friend's tweets). VGC just decided to cite Nintendo Life.

By the way, it seems that the Nintendo Life's article as well as Kotaku has an update where the mutual friend had spoken to the police department. So take note of this, everyone. LightKeyDarkBlade (talk) 18:36, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Zero actual proof of him killing himself other than some google doc that literally anyone could make up. Probably best to take this off until there is some actual real-world proof of death Honey-badger24 (talk) 06:34, 29 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

To not go into edit warring, I'm asking you here first @Primefac:. I think the DDoS info can be move to the history paragraph, do you agree? It's not really a controversy indeed, but there is an independent source. PhotographyEdits (talk) 14:02, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I removed this primarily because it seemed a little UNDUE. As I said in the edit summary, DDoS attacks happen all the time; why is this one particularly notable? There doesn't seem to be any inciting incident or long-term ramifications, so I guess it just doesn't seem like something relevant or useful to keep in the article. If there was a reason (e.g. they pissed someone off) then it might make more sense to include it. Primefac (talk) 14:35, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Given the activity this site engages in (the stalking, the harassment, the suicide-baiting, the actual body count) is it really ethical to have a link to the site itself here? Obviously people could google it themselves and get there that way if they really wanted to, but it seems like the best thing to do would be to give them as little oxygen of amplification as possible. 2601:601:9A7F:4A0:C46B:3B4A:A549:FF04 (talk) 18:43, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It is encyclopedic to link to the entity's website. If people want to find it, they will find it even if we don't link to it. We shouldn't link to specific threads on the site, however. ~Anachronist (talk) 20:13, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Change:

<ref name="Near Twitter thread">{{cite web |last1=Near (@near_koukai) |url=https://twitter.com/near_koukai/status/1408940057235312640?s=20 |website=[[Twitter]] |access-date=28 June 2021}}</ref>

To:

<ref name="Near Twitter thread">{{Cite tweet|number=1408940057235312640|user=near_kouhai|title=This is me. My real name is Dave. Sorry, I've never been able to smile.|date=June 26, 2021|author=Near|language=en}}</ref>

Notes:

Thank you. Arki J. Kirwin-Muller! (talk) 20:35, 28 June 2021 (UTC) Arki J. Kirwin-Muller! (talk) 20:35, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Good catch. It is done. Holidayruin (talk) 23:36, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Can someone change the, or remove "near's suicide" from this page? No news sources have actually confirmed anything on the subject, and it seems more liable than anything else. On the KF website, its explaining their statement on things and it doesn't match what is being stated on Kotaku- but currently, this is just a seeming ongoing spat between two groups that doesn't really belong on wikipedia and isn't really objective, or actually reporting any credible information; 99.250.170.14 (talk) 21:16, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

 Already done – Jonesey95 (talk) 01:12, 29 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Jonesey95, the content is still in the article... Primefac (talk) 01:59, 29 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I have made the header more neutral, pending better sources. PC Gamer appears to be a reliable source. – Jonesey95 (talk) 02:10, 29 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The article does not mention who the webcomic artist who was harrassed is. This seems like a very important detail, should this be included in the article's text? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:6080:6001:E5CB:0:0:0:1000 (talk) 00:37, 29 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think so. Everything notable about the individual in the context of the site is mentioned, and the individual is not directly involved with the site. Adding the name doesn't add value to the article. WP:BLP describes several points which apply to the individual which I think lead to the conclusion that the name not be mentioned. --Equivamp - talk 01:28, 29 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Please do not restore text that said Near attributed their suicide to Kiwi Farms (or anything else) in the Twitter thread to this article, as such constitutes original research. Suicide is not actually even mentioned in the Twitter thread. Equivamp - talk 08:40, 29 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Reliable sources are stating that Near committed suicide. I understand that you don't think the Twitter thread is proof, but surely we can use the reliable sources e.g. PCGamer? 116.255.19.34 (talk) 09:14, 29 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I am not suggesting to remove mention of the event from the article. As the article stands as of this writing, I'm content with it. Equivamp - talk 09:29, 29 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Equivamp: This most recent edit of yours here directly removes text stating Near committed suicide. Do you disagree that reliable sources support this? Are you okay with me restoring this text? 116.255.19.34 (talk) 09:46, 29 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

No, that wouldn't be acceptable - note how the Kotaku article is careful to say "apparently", attributing the claim to their source, etc. Information about Near still falls under BLP policy and so statements need to be carefully worded and sourced. Equivamp - talk 09:54, 29 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Not really. Reliable sources are stating that a user on Twitter claims that Near committed suicide. Even though these sources may be usually reliable, WP:RS requires that we appropriately contextualize the claim. There's a mile-wide gap between "this publication confirms that Near committed suicide" versus "this publication confirms that a Twitter user claimed that Near committed suicide." May His Shadow Fall Upon You ● 📧 12:29, 29 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Source: (can't post the entire link to kiwifarms, but the relative url is this) /threads/byuu-byuu_nyan-setsunakun0.43056/page-14#post-9313342

Especially interesting are fragments about an offer Byuu (Near) made:

If you'll take down my thread, I'll offer you my entire life's savings: $120,000 USD, as much of that as you want, however you want it. I'll further offer you my services as a 20-year software engineer, free of charge.

And the administrator's reply:

You're putting me in a very uncomfortable position. The smartest thing for me to do is simply ignore your email, but I generally try to be nice to people.

Every word that I say in reply to you will eventually be used against me. If I help you, I've censored my website and my users may be upset. If I don't help you, I could be under investigation due to your actions. Even if my users don't care, accepting money as you've offered could be a violation of some extortion laws. I will have to consult at least one of my attorneys regarding the criminality of this issue no matter what.