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Archive 1

Tagging Bildete to discuss their edit regarding changing the main article image to the flag of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army. I don't think this is appropriate, the red-black banner might have a broader history but it is far from the main flag of the Ukrainian nationalist movement. It was not used by the Ukrainian People's Republic, the Ukrainian State, the Ukrainian National Democratic Alliance, nor the OUN-M-- it wasn't even the flag of the Banderite Ukrainian national government (1941). All of these used the Flag of Ukraine as their main flag, not to mention the Sixtiers and all the mainstream independence movements since. None of them used the flag of the UPA which was never the national flag of any Ukrainian state.

Based on this, I don't even think it's appropriate to have the red-black flag in the series box. To present this as the main flag of the Ukrainian nationalist movement is to equate Ukrainian nationalism with militant nationalism, which is sorely incorrect and for the most part ahistorical. See Politics of memory#Ukraine for a brief but clearer explanation. On militant nationalism, see Dmytro Dontsov#Feud with Vyacheslav Lypynsky. Both written by me but faithfully sourced from WP:BESTSOURCES. Joko2468 (talk) 22:50, 2 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Not strictly relevant to this page but, in my opinion, the series box should be changed to the following. The flag of Ukrainian nationalism should be the Ukrainian national flag as it is with every other article on nationalism. I've made the change at template:Ukrainian nationalism, if someone disagrees please revert and we can discuss. I think it would stabilise the article for the future to have an RfC on this.

Joko2468 (talk) 23:05, 2 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

On the beginning and for a long time there was nationalist red-black flag. It's about nationalism so it should have nationalist flag. Putting Ukrainian blue-yellow flag is painting the image that all Ukrainians are Nazis. Bildete (talk) 08:56, 3 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

How come "Nazis"? Where is this written in Wikipedia? --Altenmann >talk 09:16, 3 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think that's true at all. To designate the flag of the UPA to movements that opposed it is not appropriate. Its contemporary meaning as the dominant flag of Ukrainian nationalism is contentious and is largely a modern development. This has always principally been the blue-and-yellow flag.

I appreciate that it's been used more broadly by the Ukrainian far-right, today more broadly still since the war, and that symbols aren't static but the focus of this article and the series box is the history of movements to which the red-black flag was completely foreign.

As for painting the image that all Ukrainians are Nazis, I think Wikipedia has done a good job of combatting this and if you look at my page, you'll see that I've personally contributed to filling the vacuum that this propaganda exploits. The place to reshape the symbol/ communicate that evolution is the red-black page itself, not an article about Ukrainian nationalism as a whole. Joko2468 (talk) 09:19, 3 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

By the way, if you'd like to contribute a section to the red-black page about its modern usage since the war and what it means to people serving then that would be wholly appropriate and valuable. I might do this myself. Joko2468 (talk) 09:24, 3 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I've done it: Flag of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army#Meaning. I'm not entirely content with what I've written, the Polish part is a little WP:SYNTH and I'll try to find a better source. There's a bit of POV pushing in this article about the flag that I'm going to take a look at. Joko2468 (talk) 17:32, 3 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• EthnoCarpathians 22082017DolynaUA-26 Crop and fix.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 07:22, 6 February 2026 (UTC)[reply]