Talk:Syro-Malabar Church

Request for comment on official name

Is the official name of this article's subject Syro-Malabar Church or Syro-Malabar Major Archepiscopal Church? ~ Pbritti (talk) 17:15, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Syro-Malabar Church: According to official and secondary sources, this is the primary official name. Below is a quick review of sources:
    • New Catholic Encyclopedia (2002): Syro-Malabar Church is the official name in the Annuario Pontificio for the major Oriental Catholic group of indigenous Christians in India.
    • The Particular Laws of the Syro-Malabar Church (2003): a primary legal document of the church–makes use of Syro-Malabar Church 60 times and Syro-Malabar Major Archiepiscopal Church 74 times. The document's name uses Syro-Malabar Church and Page 7 describes that Syro-Malabar Church has been in continuous official use since the 1950s. Syro-Malabar Major Archiepiscopal Church is described as an acceptable (but not legally adopted) appellation in an editorial footnote on page 79 (this footnote also clearly indicates that the church's synod is the 'Synod of Bishops of the Syro-Malabar Major Archiepiscopal Church').
    • Official website: Uses Syro-Malabar Church in its name. Uses Syro-Malabar Church and Syro-Malabar Catholic Church in its descriptions, with the former by far the most common. Syro-Malabar Church used 8 times and Syro-Malabar Major Archiepiscopal Church used once on "About us" page.
    • Official Facebook page: Uses Syro-Malabar Church in name and Syro-Malabar Catholic Church in description. Reposts material published by the subordinate Syro-Malabar Media Commission that uses Syro-Malabar Major Archiepiscopal Church in its letterhead.
    • Vatican documents: All Vatican documents on the church that were published in the last four months ([1], [2], [3], [4]) use Syro-Malabar Church. The Vatican occasionally addresses the 'Synod of Bishops of the Syro-Malabar Major Archiepiscopal Church', but refers to the church as a whole as the Syro-Malabar Church when doing so, as seen in this 2022 papal document.
    • All circulars published by the church since at least January 2023 ([5], [6], [7], [8]) have exclusively used Syro-Malabar Church when addressing the church.
    • The press releases from the church itself–rather than the subordinate media commission–that are published on its website ([9], [10]) all use Syro-Malabar Church
    • Kerala Catholic Bishops' Council: Describes the church as the Syro-Malabar Church 15 times, referring to it as The Syro-Malabar Major Archiepiscopal Church only once in the heading of a subsection about it first getting a major archbishop.
    • The Supreme Court of India (2023): Legally describes the church as the Syro Malabar Church (no hyphen).
    • The High Court of Kerala (2019): Legally describes the church as the Syro Malabar Church (no hyphen).
The evidence is quite clear that legally and officially, Syro-Malabar Church is the dominant official name. Variation is present, but suggesting that the official name is Syro-Malabar Major Archiepiscopal Church when almost all official sources (both internal and external) favor something else is incorrect. ~ Pbritti (talk) 17:16, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Syro-Malabar Major Archiepiscopal Church - the official long name or full name
Syro-Malabar Church - the common name.
Both these names are simultaneously proper to the church. The commonly used name is obviously the shorter 'Syro-Malabar Church'. However, the official full name is 'Syro-Malabar Major Archiepiscopal Church' as you can see in the The Particular Laws of the Syro-Malabar Church published in the Bulletin of the Syro-Malabar Major Archiepiscopal Church 2003. This document has the full name mentioned about 74 times. The full name is found in almost all articles of the church laws and all official activities of the church such as appointments, press releases etc.Logosx127 (talk) 00:33, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Press releases and official letter heads
    • The official letterhead of the Syro-Malabar Media Commission, which is the organ of the SMC responsible for the media, has the full name only. SYRO-MALABAR MEDIA COMMISSION
      SYRO-MALABAR MAJOR ARCHIEPISCOPAL CHURCH      [11]
    • Similarly, the Syro-Malabar Public Affairs Commission Letterhead says: SYRO-MALABAR MAJOR ARCHIEPISCOPAL CHURCH
      PUBLIC AFFAIRS COMMISSION      .[12]
  • Letters from the 'Holy See' has the full name mentioned in nearly all legal/official actions such as confirmation of various appointments etc.
From the above official documents, including the particular laws of the Church, it is clear that the longer is indeed the official name. It is associated with the church's current juridical and canonical status of being a major archiepiscopal sui juris church. It can be compared to names of other churches such as Syriac Orthodox Patriarchate of Antioch (actually the Syriac Orthodox Church itself), Coptic Orthodox Patriarchate of Alexandria, Syriac Catholic Patriarchate of Antioch, Ecumenical Patriarchate etc. Likewise if the SM church was headed by a patriarch, the full name might be 'Syro-Malabar Patriarchal Church'. Logosx127 (talk) 01:08, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Again, the only time the Vatican uses Syro-Malabar Major Archiepiscopal Church is when writing out the name of the 'Synod of Bishops of the Syro-Malabar Archiepiscopal Church'. It calls the church only Syro-Malabar Church. The letterhead of a single commission of the church is not enough to outweigh the larger number of documents from the church's highest authorities, the Vatican, and its official name in secular legal documents. ~ Pbritti (talk) 01:00, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is evident that the 'Syro-Malabar Church' is the shorter proper name, hence it explains why it is more common. The full name 'Syro-Malabar Major Archiepiscopal Church' is used by the Vatican only in association with the Synod because that is the only case that officially involves the Vatican. The Synod of Bishops does the election of bishops and decide on the liturgy which then has to be confirmed by the Pope. Meanwhile you can read the full name being used in association with almost all aspects and organs of the church in its Particular laws provide above (nearly all articles). Logosx127 (talk) 01:14, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
To write explicitly that one is the official name, one or more sources are needed that explicitly says A or B is the official name. Senorangel (talk) 03:17, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
From my understanding of policy, I think the more recognisable name should be the article title.
Is it possible to use the shorter name as the article title and keep the longer name in parentheses in the lead paragraph?
If someone searches for the longer name, can you redirect it to the article with the shorter name?
For example, when I search for 'Tupac,' I'm taken to the article that includes his full name (Tupac Shakur). LeónGonsalvesofGoa (talk) 03:45, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The more common name is usually used as the article's title. Yes, other longer or shorter names can be included in the lead paragraph, and their search results can be redirects. Senorangel (talk) 04:00, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
By that logic, I think 'Syro-Malabar Church' should be the article title. LeónGonsalvesofGoa (talk) 04:05, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This conversation appears to be a misunderstanding of what this RfC is about. It's not about the article's name, it's about whether sources indicate that "Syro-Malabar Major Archiepiscopal Church" is the church's official name (they don't). ~ Pbritti (talk) 05:02, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Noted, after reviewing the documents above, I feel the majority of the sources support the shorter name as the official name. LeónGonsalvesofGoa (talk) 03:19, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think it is a mistake to think a church has an "official" name in the Catholic sense. A church is particular to a specific group, and it is the group that has canonical recognition. How the group is addressed is a secondary matter. In this context, the group is the Syro-Malabar community. They constitute a church, and are properly called the "Syro-Malabar Church". They are more specically organized as a major archdiocese, so they are also properly called the "Syro-Malabar Major Archepiscopal Church". Both names are fully accurate, and may be registered as legal or "official" in various contexts. I don't think you will find an official name defined by canon law, only canonical recognition of the group by describing it with varying levels of specificity due to context. –Zfish118⋉talk 21:53, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Shorter name, for various reasons, including to remain consistent with the other Eastern Catholic Church page titles.
natemup (talk) 08:33, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Native life in Travancore

Why is there a total blackout on the activities of the London Missionary Society and its social improvement of the lower castes in Travancore by converting them into Christians?

What about missionaries like Rev. Samuel Mateer? How has these christains converted into Syrian-Christians, over the years?

The real settlers to Malabar forests were from the lower caste converted Christians of Travancore kingdom. They were absolutely different from the Syrian Christians? How have they been confused with the other christians? 150.107.213.17 (talk) 03:03, 18 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

There are other articles for other Christian groups. ~ Pbritti (talk) 03:07, 18 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

List of eparchies

The present list is redundant. Logosx127 has repeatedly restored it without explaining why it should be present in the article, only saying it "has been here since many years". While that is not a policy-based reason for restoring challenged content, I wanted to give Logosx127 a space to make their case. If no consensus for retaining the list—which replicates the content of List of Syro-Malabar Catholic eparchies—is reached in the next few days, I'll remove it again (assuming Logosx127 does not self-revert). ~ Pbritti (talk) 04:42, 30 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

allikas: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Syro-Malabar_Church