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Hello all

I have revised the death toll figures in the Info Box based on the second edition of Reynold's scholarly study The Forgotten War (2022). This is one of the most studied areas of Australian history in the past twenty years so it's important that we base the article on the most recent scholarship where possible. The figure of 115,000 Indigenous deaths in the conflicts wasn't a scholarly estimate from Reynolds, he merely mentions it as speculation by one author and sources it to the Brisbane Times). In any event, the info box is supposed to be a summary of the contents of the article and I can see no section in the article discussing recent scholarship on this complex issue. I will try to add one in the next week of so. This is an important aspect of Australian history and this article needs a thorough rewrite based on the most recent and reliable scholarly sources. I would be happy to work with other interested editors to improve the article over time.

Happy to discuss Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 02:09, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, fair call. The Colonial Frontier Massacres in Australia, 1788-1930 project here has excellent quality information. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:26, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

During many conflicts of the Australian Frontier Wars, there were many militias that took part in fighting against the Aboriginals. A good number were illegal, civilian militias that operated without government permission, but other militias were government run and either legal, or de facto legal. There were many cases where the mayor of a town would raise armed men from the civilian population to fight, an example would be when the ‘mayor’ of the Cloncurry area raised an informal Posse to engage the Kalkadoon. To this point, in the infobox section of this page, should Posse Comitatus be added as a combatant in the wars? I think that would be highly appropriate seeing how much of the conflict was fought by organisations the same or similar to that. 2001:8003:3A18:E00:7542:B483:9B48:2F79 (talk) 07:15, 6 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

If there were many cases, it should not be difficult to list some reliable sources that document this. Nickm57 (talk) 08:08, 6 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

100% you’re right. I will go find some sources. I will list them soon. 2001:8003:3A18:E00:7542:B483:9B48:2F79 (talk) 09:17, 6 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

. Police Commissioner Simpson gathered forces of soldiers, police and civilians from the Brisbane area. He pulled up some 75-100 civilian men, this might not have technically been called a Posse, but it was a government sponsored militia. They were used to fight against the United Tribes during the War of Southern Queensland, this occurred in 1843, source cited from the ‘Battle of One Tree Hill’ page on Wikipedia.

. The British government called up 912 civilians and 738 convicts servants, they formed a legal and legitimate government Posse. They were used in an attempt to destroy the Tasmanian Aboriginals. This event was known as the ‘Black Line’, this occurred from October-November 1830, source cited from the ‘Black War’ page on Wikipedia.

. Alexander Kennedy, a prominent landowner, who acted as de facto mayor of the Cloncurry area, called up a large body of armed men to engage the Kalkadoon, they acted as an unofficial Posse. This occurred in 1878, source cited from the ‘course of the wars’ section in the ‘Kalkadoon Wars’ page on Wikipedia. 2001:8003:3A18:E00:1156:5464:CAE5:5097 (talk) 10:23, 6 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Is there any evidence of military forces engaging the Aboriginals beyond Federation? The wars continued in some capacity for a further 30 years, was there some use of soldiers in that period? In the conflicts before Federation, we see the use of the British Army and Volunteer Rifle units, but post Federation, we really don’t see anything of the kind. 101.183.64.212 (talk) 01:32, 8 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

A map of Australian frontier wars massacres has been finalised according to the currently available evidence, by the Colonial Frontier Massacres Digital Map Project: Allam, Lorena; Evershed, Nick (23 February 2025). "More than 10,000 First Nations people killed in Australia's frontier wars, final massacre map shows". The Guardian. Retrieved 23 February 2025. "The Killing Times (map)". The Guardian. 23 February 2025. Retrieved 23 February 2025. Errantios (talk) 11:45, 23 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, good to know. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 12:07, 23 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I would like to add a small topic on the discussion of the death toll? Why is there no section on this topic, as it has been quite vigorously discussed. Unless anyone has problems, I will add a small section on the scolarly discussion on the death toll. LouisBStevenson (talk) 09:44, 3 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I have made a small section on the death toll. Feel free to add newer info. LouisBStevenson (talk) 15:26, 3 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@LouisBStevenson Thanks for that. You seem to have copied much of this information from other Wikipedia articles. Please note that this material is copyright so you need to include in you edit summary where you got the content. If you let me know which articles you copied this stuff from, I can add the notice for you. Did you use AI to write this? Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 23:28, 3 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@LouisBStevenson Please conform your content to standard WP style (such as italicisation of a book title) and referencing. Errantios (talk) 23:37, 3 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@LouisBStevenson I have restored the previous wording because it is more concise and focused on the frontier wars. All we need to say is that estimates of the the pre-colonisation indigenous population (not "native" population) was between 300,000 and 3 million and that it fell to about 90,000 in 1901. Then we say there is debate over how much of this decline was caused by the frontier wars. If you would like to adjust the wording then please discuss it here. I am sure we can reach a compromise. But please don't just restore wording that is unnecessarily wordy and uses inappropriate language. Your most recent edit does not address the problem of your poor referencing and apparent copying from other wikipedia articles without attribution. It would have been more productive for you to have fixed this. You shouldn't expect other editors to clean up a mess because you didn't provide complete, properly formatted citations and content attributions. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 22:29, 4 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

No I did not use AI to write this. The only other wikipedia article I used was "Prehistory of Australia" ~2025-31362-09 (talk) 09:06, 5 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]