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Nominator(s): Ashmedai 119 (talk)

Battle of Meligalas (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

This article was translated from Greek Wikipedia, where it is a FA, a while ago from Cplakidas, the undersigned having been the editor who contributed most to its original version. It has passed a GA review, without many critical comments from the reviewer. I am nominating this article for A-Class review, because I think it fulfills the A-Class criteria and I would also greatly appreciate comments by encyclopedia editors who have concerned themselves with military matters, hoping that there will be improvements that will eventually lead the article to being a Featured Article. Ashmedai 119 (talk) 08:59, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

• File:Borci na ELAS.jpg - this needs a US licensing tag as well, since Wikimedia servers are in the US
  • Resolved
    • This photo does not have a date of publication, so how do we know that either one is correct? Be aware that creation and publication are two very different things. Without a date of publication, it's basically impossible to firmly establish copyright status in the US.
      • The additional licensing tag was added by the undersigned based on a reasoning that was developed in the context of this discussion at the Commons "Village pump". Given the original uploader's response to my request for concrete details re publication etc, this seems to be the most satisfactory description of its copyright status that is achievable. If you hold that the (current) conclusion of the discussion in the Commons is unsatisfactory or plainly wrong, might I propose that you make the case for that in the Commons, so that other users, who suggested that this licensing tag is appropriate, can contribute their opinion regarding the matter? Ashmedai 119 (talk) 06:59, 31 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
        • Carl's one of the people I go to with copyright questions, so if they're fine with it, we're probably ok. Parsecboy (talk) 21:27, 31 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
• File:BRAVOS-1940.jpg - same as above
  • Resolved
    • Same as above - without a date of publication, how do we know what its copyright status is?
      • Please see above. Ashmedai 119 (talk) 06:59, 31 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
• All other images check out, either Bundesarchiv photos or works of current users
• Please remove periods from captions that are not full sentences
  •  Done
• In terms of placement, you have some MOS:SANDWICHing going on in the "German takeover and the establishment of the Security Battalions" section, which should be avoided.
  • Resolved

That's it for images. Parsecboy (talk) 14:30, 21 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for pointing out these issues, Parsecboy. They have all been resolved now. Ashmedai 119 (talk) 21:53, 29 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The licensing issues still need more information to be resolved. Parsecboy (talk) 22:11, 29 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Most of the issues with this article seem to be in the translation.

Lead

• Mention that the ELAS was a (mainly communist) left wing resistance organisation, as this knowledge is necessary to understand the last paragraph
  •  Done
• "from 1942" no comma
  •  Done
• "remains a point of reference and an antifascist rallying cry for the far-left in Greece" I have no idea what is meant here
  • Apologies for this, but in my non-native English speaker mind, this does make sense, especially given that I have in consideration the last section of the article that this sentence tries to summarize. Perhaps you would have a proposal to rewrite this (e.g. by eliminating the phrase "point of reference", if this is the confusing bit) after you have read the last part of the article?

Political and military background

• " the wing commander Dimitris Michas" -> Wing Commander Dimitris Michas
  •  Done
• " in the mountainous areas of Messenia" Where is that?
  • I added a wikilink to Messenia and the phrase "in southwestern Peloponnese".
• " was established as a Resistance group", " the local Resistance groups" lower case R
  •  Done, though I have my doubts this is correct [the Resistance is a historical phenomenon, as in "the Renaissance artists", "the Enlightenment thinkers"]
• " after forging ties with royalist networks chiefly in the area and in Athens" In what area?
  • "In the area" here denoted the Peloponnese and I substituted it with the phrase "in the Peloponnese".
• " but these failed" -> " but these efforts failed"
  •  Done
• "such as Dionysios Papadongonas and possibly also Tilemachos Vrettakos, respectively " Delete "respectively"
  • "Respectively" here serves to denote that Papadongonas sought help from the Italians and Vrettakos from the Germans -- if it is to be removed, how are we to distinguish between the two?
• " the German major general Karl von Le Suire" capitalise "major General" (link to Generalmajor)
  •  Done
• "Apart from the "Evzone Battalions" (Ευζωνικά Τάγματα) established by the collaborationist government of Ioannis Rallis, in late 1943 independent "Security Battalions" (Τάγματα Ασφαλείας, ΤΑ) began being raised" What do we mean by "Apart from" Is "In addition to" meant?
  • Resolved
    -- changed to "In addition to"
• "After a request of the collaborator prefect of Messenia" -> "request from"
  •  Done
• " ordered in February" -> " ordered in February 1944" ?
  •  Done
• "the Security Battalion under the command of Major Panagiotis Stoupas, that arrived" Delete comma

 Done

• "After a request of the collaborator prefect of Messenia, Dimitrios Perrotis, the Rallis government ordered in February a municipality-supported Security Battalion to be formed in Kalamata, which merged in March with the Security Battalion under the command of Major Panagiotis Stoupas, that arrived from Athens in Meligalas, a location that controlled the road from Kalamata to Tripolis and the entire area of the south." This entence is too long and very confusing. Break it up.
  •  Done
• "a town held by a German garrison at Meligalas" This doesn't make sense.

Resolved

I've edited the sentence to "Meligalas became the first town held by a German garrison to be attacked by ELAS"

• " sent there Aris Velouchiotis" -> "sent Aris Velouchiotis there"
  •  Done
• "Velouchiotis' task was to reorganize the 3rd ELAS Division, with a total strength of some 6,000 men" He is trying to reorganise it, reducing it to 6,000 men?
  • No, this was the 3rd Division's total strengh.
• "Following the assassination of Georganas by the OPLA of Kalamata" Who were they?
  • Resolved
    -- added a phrase about the OPLA with a reference to a recent monograph about the OPLA of Athens
• " members of the collaborationist governments" There is more than one?
  • Yes, from April 1941 onward three collaborationist governments formed in occupied Greece, under Georgios Tsolakoglou, Konstantinos Logothetopoulos and Ioannis Rallis.
• "proscribing the death penalty for high treason to those who" -> "for those who"
  •  Done
• "The British desired the maintenance of the status quo until the arrival of their forces and the Papandreou government, and above all wanted to avoid German arms and equipment from falling into the hands of the partisans." Italicise "status quo"
  •  Done
• " British lieutenant general Ronald Scobie", "Greek lieutenant general Panagiotis Spiliotopoulos" capitalise and link "lieutenant general"
  • Resolved
    capitalised and added links
• " Walter Blume, the head of the German security police (SD)" add "in Greece"
  •  Done
• "Colonel Papadongonas" Delete "Colonel"
  •  Done

more to come... Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:56, 24 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

• "distributed the c. 50 light machine" We don't use circa in English except for dates. Replace all instances in the article.
  •  Done replaced all instance
• "The attackers, however, " Delete "however"
  •  Done
• "to approach the besieged Battalionsts, to facilitate their surrender" Delete comma
  •  Done
• "the invasion of Meligalas by civilians" "invasion" is not the right word here
  •  Done
• "the Battalionists's " Delete "'s"
  •  Done
• "or even the local EAM authorities" -> "and even the local EAM authorities"
  •  Done
• "in some occasions the families " -> "on some occasions the families"
  •  Done
• Gerolymatos, André (2018) is not used
  • Resolved
    reference removed
• Theodoropoulos, Ilias (1998) needs a publisher.
  • This was a self-publication, there is no published mentioned in the book.

I strongly urge that this article be copyedited. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 00:04, 29 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

• • As many of the problems you raised were not detectable by my eyes, I am not sure I would be up to the task and I am wondering if you would have someone to suggest in this regard. Thanks, Ashmedai 119 (talk) 06:59, 31 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]