Wikipedia talk:General disclaimer: Difference between revisions
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Pakistan: 'Free Kashmir' Far From Free |
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Government Opponents Face Torture, Censorship and Political Repression |
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[[/archive]] |
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== Libel == |
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(Islamabad, September 21, 2006) – In Azad Kashmir, a region largely |
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closed to international scrutiny until a devastating earthquake hit |
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last year, the Pakistani government represses democratic freedoms, muzzles the |
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press and practices routine torture, Human Rights Watch said in a |
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report released today. |
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How can wikipedia be immune to claims of publishing libelous material? In US law, anyone associated with publishing libel (e.g. a company that runs a printing press) can be included in the suit against the author for enabling the libel to occur. --[[User:Sixtrojans|Sixtrojans]] 00:46, 1 April 2006 (UTC) |
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Based on research in Azad Kashmir (which means "free Kashmir") and |
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Pakistan, the 71-page report, "'With Friends Like These …': Human |
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Rights Violations in Azad Kashmir," uncovers abuses by the Pakistani |
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military, intelligence services and militant organizations. |
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"Although 'azad' means 'free,' the residents of Azad Kashmir are |
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anything but," said Brad Adams, Asia director at Human Rights Watch. |
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"The Pakistani authorities govern Azad Kashmir with strict controls on |
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basic freedoms." |
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Before a massive earthquake struck in October, Azad Kashmir was one of |
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the most closed territories in the world. Tight controls on freedom of |
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_expression have been a hallmark of government policy in Azad Kashmir. |
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Pakistan has prevented the creation of independent media in the |
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territory through bureaucratic restrictions and coercion. Publications and |
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literature favoring independence is banned. While militant organizations promoting |
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the incorporation of Indian-administered Jammu and Kashmir state into |
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Pakistan have had free rein to propagate their views, groups promoting |
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an independent Kashmir find their speech sharply, sometimes violently |
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curtailed.Under Azad Kashmir's constitution, which Pakistan imposed in 1974, |
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election candidates are prescreened to ensure that only those who |
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support Kashmir's union with Pakistan can contest elections. Anyone who wants |
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to take part in public life in Azad Kashmir has to sign a pledge of |
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loyalty to Pakistan, while anyone who publicly supports or peacefully works for |
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an independent Kashmir faces persecution. |
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"There is a façade of an elected local government, but the federal |
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government in Islamabad, the army and the intelligence agencies control |
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all aspects of political life in Azad Kashmir," said Adams. "The |
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military shows no tolerance for dissent and practically runs the region as a |
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fiefdom."Torture is routinely used in Pakistan, and this practice is also |
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routine in |
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Not Quite: |
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Azad Kashmir. Human Rights Watch has documented incidents of torture |
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:The Communications Decency Act of 1996 ("CDA") -- 47 U.S.C. § 230 "plainly immunizes computer service providers like AOL from liability for information that originates with third parties. Furthermore, Congress clearly expressed its intent that § 230 apply to lawsuits" - ''[http://www.loundy.com/CASES/Zeran_v_AOL.html Kenneth M. Zeran v. America Online, Inc.]'' [[case citation|958 F. Supp. 1124]] (E.D. Va. March 21, 1997)(Ellis, J.) aff'd. 129 F. 3d 327 (4th Cir. Nov. 12, 1997), cert. denied, 524 US 937 (1998) |
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by the intelligence services and others acting at the army's behest but |
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knows of no cases in which members of military and paramilitary |
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security and intelligence agencies have been prosecuted or even disciplined for |
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acts of torture or mistreatment.Despite the Pakistani government's criticism of human rights violations |
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in neighbouring Jammu and Kashmir state in India, refugees from Jammu |
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and Kashmir are discriminated against and mistreated by the |
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authorities. Kashmiri refugees and former militants from India, most of whom are |
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secular nationalists and culturally and linguistically distinct from |
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the peoples of Azad Kashmir, are particularly harassed through constant |
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surveillance, curbs on political _expression, arbitrary arrest and beatings."The Pakistani government often pretends that the only problems faced by Kashmiris are in India," said Adams. "It should start looking into ways of ending human rights abuses in Azad Kashmir."Human Rights Watch urged international donors, which have poured |
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billions of dollars of urgently needed relief and reconstruction aid |
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into Azad Kashmir since the earthquake, to insist on structural changes in |
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governance and the promotion of both human rights and the rule of law. Recent corruption allegations against senior government officials highlight serious weaknesses in the rule of law and governmental accountability. |
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"As it supports reconstruction efforts, the international community |
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must insist that Pakistan respect the human rights of the people of Azad |
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Kashmir," said Adams. "The Pakistani government must ensure that the |
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people of Azad Kashmir can exercise their fundamental civil and |
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political rights in an environment free of coercion and fear." |
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Testimonies from the report: |
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"About six or seven soldiers led by a major ran the proceedings, which |
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lasted for about five days. The soldiers kept changing and 'worked' us |
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in shifts. They started by making us do push-ups and sit-ups for hours, |
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then beat us with rods and belts when we collapsed in exhaustion. They kept |
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saying that we must admit that we had become 'double agents,' that we |
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had crossed over to the Indian side because we were 'Hindu lovers,' |
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that we were 'shameless bastards who wanted to be raped by the rapists of |
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our sisters and mothers.' Initially, I and the others argued, told them |
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they were wrong and what they were doing was wrong. But when you are beaten and |
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bloodied, barely conscious, nothing really matters beyond a point. They |
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decided to make a particular example of Sameer [name changed] who was |
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the most vocal of us. In front of us, he was stripped naked and |
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chillies were shoved up his rectum. He screamed and screamed and the more he |
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screamed the more they beat him with batons and belts, kicked him, |
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punched him. They would beat him unconscious, bring him back and then |
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beat him unconscious again. He did not die in front of us. But it has |
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Clearly then, Wikipedia, to the extent material is added by third-party editors such as you and me, and not by employees or officers of the Wikimedia Foundation, would thus be immune to liability. [[User:Rfc1394|Paul Robinson (Rfc1394)]] 10:49, 23 June 2006 (UTC) |
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been eight years and we never saw him again after those five days together |
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so I think he is dead. He has to be. After what they did to him, it would be |
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== Read critically == |
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better for him too." Interview with "Shahid," a former militant, Azad Kashmir |
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I strongly support a more prominent disclaimer. However, it doesn't have to be a negative thing. Even something simple like this would be a start: |
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"On April 7, we went on a hunger strike …Why have we been locked up |
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for hailing and supporting the bus [service between Srinagar and |
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<center><div class="boilerplate metadata" id="''Disclaimer''" style="background-color: #FFFFFF; width: 240px; border: 1px solid #000000; margin: 0.5em; padding: 0.5em;"><center><b>''Disclaimer''</b></center><center>Remember to [[Wikipedia:Read critically|Read critically]].</center> |
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Muzaffarabad]? On April 10, at about 6 a.m., we were given breakfast. |
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</div></center> |
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We refused. The jail authorities started beating us with sticks and |
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metal rods. About 14 or 15 people were beating each person. All other |
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And [[Wikipedia:Read critically|Read critically]] should say something like: |
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criminal prisoners and the police present were included. The jail |
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:It is important to read all sources critically. Books, journals, encyclopedia and websites can all be informative. However, nothing can be considered 100% accurate. |
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superintendent, Raja Aftab, was standing at the sentry post directing the prisoners to |
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:This is important when reading Wikipedia. As anyone can contribute, errors do occur (although we have systems in place to minimize and correct errors). |
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beat us. We were beaten badly. (It was pre-arranged between the other |
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prisoners and the police.) One person had an eye torn out. One had |
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That's just the seed of an idea, and I haven't really gone into what critical reading is, yet. But how does it sound as an idea? --[[User:Singkong2005|Singkong2005]] 00:37, 11 April 2006 (UTC) |
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several head injuries. Another had his hand broken. Everyone was bruised. We |
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were beaten for about two-and-a-half hours. This happened in all three |
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I cannot think of a more appropriate subject for Wikians to discuss! If I had only paid attention during the many years of my education, I wouldn't have to spend so much time dealing with the same thing Paul Simon sings in the first two lines of "Kodachrome." "When I think of all the crap I learned in high school, It's a wonder I can think at all." 21st century technology serves to remind all of us of the urgent need for critical reading that all of us should be doing all of our lives. I get at least 6 bulk mails every day, asking me to claim my U.K. lottery winnings, helping some needy soul in Africa, or unauthorised access to "my" pay-pal account. I think critical analysis should be taught from pre-school through phD programmes. |
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cells between 6 a.m. to 8:30 a.m. Then the jailer came and said, 'If |
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[[User:W8IMP]] 22:56, 26 June 2006 (UTC) |
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you don't eat, we will shove the food up your ass.' We agreed to eat under |
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duress, as those who refused to eat were beaten very severely. Mohammad |
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== Other disclaimers section... == |
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Ayub Butt refused to eat, so they cracked his spine. Why did the Azad |
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Kashmir government arrest us and beat us up? We were only supporting |
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... should be removed. What does this have to do with wikipedia? It comes across as saying "our content may suck, but look, those other guys say that their encyclopedia are not perfect either". ---[[User:68.149.161.88|68.149.161.88]] 04:06, 22 April 2006 (UTC) |
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the stated policy of the Pakistani government. Is that not allowed? Or |
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does Musharraf sitting in Islamabad not know what goes on in |
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: I agree. It only makes Wikipedia's editors seem juvenile and embarrassed by the generally poor quality of content on this site. These perceptions may or may not be accurate, but just FYI, this is the impression from "Other disclaimers." [[User:Anonymous 198736|Anonymous 198736]] 03:39, 8 June 2006 (UTC) |
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Muzaffarabad?" |
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: Aux Contriere! How could a comparative analysis of disclaimers by "legitimate" sources, some of which are clear, and others obfuscational legalese, do anything but butress the need for all Wikians to behave responsibly? [[User:W8IMP]] 22:36, 26 June 2006 (UTC) |
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== Link to articles in other languages == |
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Have been unable to insert a link to |
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'''<code>[[</code><code>tr:Vikipedi:Genel_sorumluluk_reddi</code><code>]]</code>''' |
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Someone who has the privilege to modify protected pages should do instead. |
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--[[User:Gundolf von Mauretanien|Gundolf von Mauretanien]] 06:22, 28 July 2006 (UTC) |
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== External links == |
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Should we add something to the disclaimer to the effect that we also cannot make guarantees about the nature of externally linked content? [[User:Savidan|savidan]]<sup>[[User_talk:Savidan|(talk)]] [[Wikipedia:Esperanza|<span style="color:#008000;">(e@)</span>]]</sup> 18:16, 5 August 2006 (UTC) |
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:NM. it looks like we already do. [[User:Savidan|savidan]]<sup>[[User_talk:Savidan|(talk)]] [[Wikipedia:Esperanza|<span style="color:#008000;">(e@)</span>]]</sup> 18:18, 5 August 2006 (UTC) |
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==Unsigned comment== |
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Wikipedia uses at least a double measurement. Some authors are refused on the quasy-scientific basis, however, other authors are allowed to publish false information and it is impossible to find a way of correcting them. This is not an honest policy. I don't think Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. It serves other purposes, which are directly non-scientific. |
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left by ''81.182.83.72 (Talk)'' noted by [[User:SatuSuro|SatuSuro]] 06:24, 27 August 2006 (UTC) |
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== eu interwiki == |
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Please, add the next interwiki if it is possible: [[eu:Wikipedia:Lege oharra]]. Thanks.[[User:Berria|Berria]] · [[User talk:Berria|(talk)]] 11:03, 28 August 2006 (UTC) |
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: This has been done. [[User Talk:JzG|Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy</span> you know?]] 11:42, 31 August 2006 (UTC) |
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== Formatting and junk-purging == |
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I made an [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard#Disclaimers|AN post]] regarding this four days ago; no replies. In any case, here it is again: |
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:The [[Wikipedia:General disclaimer|disclaimers]], linked to in the footer of every single document in the project ([[:eo:Malgarantia paĝo|others]] [[m:Meta:General disclaimer|too]]), are in a state of horror. I've (a) made formatting changes and (b) removed what I considered junk; the results are at [[User:PseudoSudo/Disclaimers/Wikipedia:General disclaimer]] (diffs: [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:PseudoSudo/Disclaimers/Wikipedia:General_disclaimer&diff&oldid=71741378 general], [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:PseudoSudo/Disclaimers/Wikipedia:Risk_disclaimer&diff&oldid=71741455 risk] [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:PseudoSudo/Disclaimers/Wikipedia:Medical_disclaimer&diff&oldid=71741496 medical], [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:PseudoSudo/Disclaimers/Wikipedia:Legal_disclaimer&diff&oldid=71741530 legal], [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:PseudoSudo/Disclaimers/Wikipedia:Content_disclaimer&diff&oldid=71741623 content]). I'd appreciate if a sysop reading this could copy them over to their respective projectspace pages (changing <code><nowiki>{{../Template:Disclaimer-header}}</nowiki></code> to <code><nowiki>{{disclaimer-header}}</nowiki></code> and <code><nowiki>[[:Category:Wikipedia disclaimers]]</nowiki></code> to <code><nowiki>[[Category:Wikipedia disclaimers]]</nowiki></code>); I also invite anyone with concerns to comment here and/or reverse the copy if it's been performed. |
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:Although it's an improvement, in my opinion the pages have quite a ways to go. A goal I'd personally like to see is one single disclaimer, free from rhetoric and irrelevent comments (wikilinks gone, too). ~ [[User:PseudoSudo|PseudoSudo]] 20:01, 27 August 2006 (UTC) |
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Honestly, given the high visibility of the post, I'm interpreting the lack of interest as a lack of opposition. Would someone please copy over the pages? ~ [[User:PseudoSudo|PseudoSudo]] 00:03, 31 August 2006 (UTC) |
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:I've done this one, leave me a note what else wants doing. [[User Talk:JzG|Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy</span> you know?]] 11:43, 31 August 2006 (UTC) |
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== Raw code in page == |
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There seems to be a bit of raw wiki code at the top of the page: |
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<nowiki>{{../Template:Disclaimer-header}}</nowiki> |
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Isn't that supposed to get expanded into some sort of header? |
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[[User:Dtobias|*Dan T.*]] 12:11, 31 August 2006 (UTC) |
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:Has been taken care of. ~ [[User:PseudoSudo|PseudoSudo]] 16:50, 31 August 2006 (UTC) |
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Revision as of 11:47, 22 September 2006
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Libel
How can wikipedia be immune to claims of publishing libelous material? In US law, anyone associated with publishing libel (e.g. a company that runs a printing press) can be included in the suit against the author for enabling the libel to occur. --Sixtrojans 00:46, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
Not Quite:
- The Communications Decency Act of 1996 ("CDA") -- 47 U.S.C. § 230 "plainly immunizes computer service providers like AOL from liability for information that originates with third parties. Furthermore, Congress clearly expressed its intent that § 230 apply to lawsuits" - Kenneth M. Zeran v. America Online, Inc. 958 F. Supp. 1124 (E.D. Va. March 21, 1997)(Ellis, J.) aff'd. 129 F. 3d 327 (4th Cir. Nov. 12, 1997), cert. denied, 524 US 937 (1998)
Clearly then, Wikipedia, to the extent material is added by third-party editors such as you and me, and not by employees or officers of the Wikimedia Foundation, would thus be immune to liability. Paul Robinson (Rfc1394) 10:49, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Read critically
I strongly support a more prominent disclaimer. However, it doesn't have to be a negative thing. Even something simple like this would be a start:
And Read critically should say something like:
- It is important to read all sources critically. Books, journals, encyclopedia and websites can all be informative. However, nothing can be considered 100% accurate.
- This is important when reading Wikipedia. As anyone can contribute, errors do occur (although we have systems in place to minimize and correct errors).
That's just the seed of an idea, and I haven't really gone into what critical reading is, yet. But how does it sound as an idea? --Singkong2005 00:37, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
I cannot think of a more appropriate subject for Wikians to discuss! If I had only paid attention during the many years of my education, I wouldn't have to spend so much time dealing with the same thing Paul Simon sings in the first two lines of "Kodachrome." "When I think of all the crap I learned in high school, It's a wonder I can think at all." 21st century technology serves to remind all of us of the urgent need for critical reading that all of us should be doing all of our lives. I get at least 6 bulk mails every day, asking me to claim my U.K. lottery winnings, helping some needy soul in Africa, or unauthorised access to "my" pay-pal account. I think critical analysis should be taught from pre-school through phD programmes. User:W8IMP 22:56, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
Other disclaimers section...
... should be removed. What does this have to do with wikipedia? It comes across as saying "our content may suck, but look, those other guys say that their encyclopedia are not perfect either". ---68.149.161.88 04:06, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
- I agree. It only makes Wikipedia's editors seem juvenile and embarrassed by the generally poor quality of content on this site. These perceptions may or may not be accurate, but just FYI, this is the impression from "Other disclaimers." Anonymous 198736 03:39, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
- Aux Contriere! How could a comparative analysis of disclaimers by "legitimate" sources, some of which are clear, and others obfuscational legalese, do anything but butress the need for all Wikians to behave responsibly? User:W8IMP 22:36, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
Link to articles in other languages
Have been unable to insert a link to
[[tr:Vikipedi:Genel_sorumluluk_reddi]]
Someone who has the privilege to modify protected pages should do instead.
--Gundolf von Mauretanien 06:22, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
External links
Should we add something to the disclaimer to the effect that we also cannot make guarantees about the nature of externally linked content? savidan(talk) (e@) 18:16, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
- NM. it looks like we already do. savidan(talk) (e@) 18:18, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
Unsigned comment
Wikipedia uses at least a double measurement. Some authors are refused on the quasy-scientific basis, however, other authors are allowed to publish false information and it is impossible to find a way of correcting them. This is not an honest policy. I don't think Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. It serves other purposes, which are directly non-scientific.
left by 81.182.83.72 (Talk) noted by SatuSuro 06:24, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
eu interwiki
Please, add the next interwiki if it is possible: eu:Wikipedia:Lege oharra. Thanks.Berria · (talk) 11:03, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
- This has been done. Just zis Guy you know? 11:42, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
Formatting and junk-purging
I made an AN post regarding this four days ago; no replies. In any case, here it is again:
- The disclaimers, linked to in the footer of every single document in the project (others too), are in a state of horror. I've (a) made formatting changes and (b) removed what I considered junk; the results are at User:PseudoSudo/Disclaimers/Wikipedia:General disclaimer (diffs: general, risk medical, legal, content). I'd appreciate if a sysop reading this could copy them over to their respective projectspace pages (changing
{{../Template:Disclaimer-header}}to{{disclaimer-header}}and[[:Category:Wikipedia disclaimers]]to[[Category:Wikipedia disclaimers]]); I also invite anyone with concerns to comment here and/or reverse the copy if it's been performed.
- Although it's an improvement, in my opinion the pages have quite a ways to go. A goal I'd personally like to see is one single disclaimer, free from rhetoric and irrelevent comments (wikilinks gone, too). ~ PseudoSudo 20:01, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
Honestly, given the high visibility of the post, I'm interpreting the lack of interest as a lack of opposition. Would someone please copy over the pages? ~ PseudoSudo 00:03, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
- I've done this one, leave me a note what else wants doing. Just zis Guy you know? 11:43, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
Raw code in page
There seems to be a bit of raw wiki code at the top of the page:
{{../Template:Disclaimer-header}}
Isn't that supposed to get expanded into some sort of header? *Dan T.* 12:11, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
- Has been taken care of. ~ PseudoSudo 16:50, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
