Talk:Indonesia–Malaysia confrontation

Expansion of the conflict to the Malaysian Peninsula

The Expansion of the conflict to the Malaysian Peninsula section suggests that violence only extended beyond Borneo in 1964, however the Katong Park bombings took place in late 1963. I am unsure exactly how this might be integrated into the article. CMD (talk) 07:41, 4 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Result

The result field in the infobox used to say:

But on 7 November 2025, it got changed by Keith-264 as a so-called minor edit to Commonwealth victory; the explanation for this was Cleaned up using AutoEd see Template:Infobox military conflict for permitted terms for 'result' ---- Toddy1 (talk) 20:18, 8 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Refer to the documentation for Template:Infobox military conflict, especially result – optional – this parameter may use one of two standard terms: "X victory" or "Inconclusive", which means this parameter is optional and generally should use those two standard terms only when the outcome is clearly defined. As noted in our previous discussion two years ago, it has been difficult to find sources that explicitly state a "Commonwealth victory," indicating that the outcome is not as simple as "victory" versus "inconclusive."
The documentation also states In cases where the standard terms do not accurately describe the outcome, a link or note should be made to the section of the article where the result is discussed in detail (such as "See the Aftermath section"), which suggests that when the situation involves multiple elements, which in this case are Sukarno being ousted, a peace treaty being reached, recognition of the formation of Malaya, and the continued communist insurgency in Sarawak until 1987, the result is better explained in the article body rather than reduced to a single term.
Regarding "Commonwealth victory," as of today this claim does not appear anywhere in the article. Again referring to the documentation, Information summarized in an infobox should follow the general guidance for writing a lead section. It should not "make claims" or present material not covered by the article. This is consistent with MOS:INFOBOXPURPOSE which states The purpose of an infobox is to summarize, but not supplant, the key facts that appear in an article. Therefore, we should focus on improving and clearly establishing the result within the article content first before reflecting it in the infobox. Ckfasdf (talk) 22:10, 8 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ van der Bijl 2007, p. 246, It was an outstanding victory, and it was a victory.
  2. ^ Andretta Schellinger (12 February 2016). Aircraft Nose Art: American, French and British Imagery and Its Influences from World War I through the Vietnam War. McFarland. pp. 152–. ISBN 978-0-7864-9771-3. Archived from the original on 15 February 2017. Retrieved 26 January 2017.
  3. ^ Dennis & Grey 1996, p. 318.

confrontation results

@Ckfasdf What do you mean by changing the Commonwealth victory to a “peace” decision? This action seems to be trying to deny the historical facts without any clear explanation.

The “peace” decision itself actually reflects the defeat of Indonesia under the leadership of President Sukarno. Historical facts show that Malaysia remained sovereign, many military operations were won by the Commonwealth, and Indonesia failed to dissolve Malaysia. In the end, President Sukarno was overthrown from power.

The changes you made are too vague and seem to aim to cover up the defeat by using the term “peace”, when in reality it was a strategic and political defeat for Indonesia. GreenTer6710 (talk) 07:52, 14 January 2026 (UTC) Blocked sock. Ckfasdf (talk) 07:40, 15 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

@GreenTer6710: Please read the previous section (#Result) carefully. I believe my explanation there is already clear. Ckfasdf (talk) 07:58, 14 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]
Your statement is not valid and is just to cover up your country's defeat. The proof that you lost is that you FAILED to dissolve the Malaysian state and many military operations were won by the Commonwealth. Peace is indeed due to the fall and failure of Dwikora. GreenTer6710 (talk) 08:04, 14 January 2026 (UTC) Blocked sock. Ckfasdf (talk) 07:40, 15 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]
@GreenTer6710: This discussion should not be framed in nationalistic or accusatory terms. We are editing Wikipedia, and edits must be based on its policies and guidelines, not personal interpretations or political narratives.
Per MOS:INFOBOXPURPOSE, "The purpose of an infobox is to summarize, but not supplant, the key facts that appear in an article." Any claims about outcomes or interpretations must therefore be supported in the article body before being reflected in the infobox. Ckfasdf (talk) 08:21, 14 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]
The documentation for Template:Infobox military conflict states that when standard terms do not accurately describe the outcome, the infobox may include a link or note directing readers to the relevant section of the article, such as "See the Aftermath section," which is exactly what my edit does. Ckfasdf (talk) 08:24, 14 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]
Also, per the documentation for Template:Infobox military conflict, the result parameter is limited to three options: "X victory," "inconclusive," or a note such as "See the Aftermath section." Ckfasdf (talk) 08:30, 14 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]
If sources can consistently be found that call it a Commonwealth victory than that is what should be there, if not then aftermath should work. Also those bullet points in the result perameter are way too much for the result parameter. DervotNum4 (talk) 20:05, 14 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]
There is a source that states the conflict is a Commonwealth victory. I don't understand why it was removed, there are a few more sources that describe the result as such as well. So will add this into the Aftermath soon. Eastfarthingan (talk) 21:06, 19 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]
I was previously of the mind that "Commonwealth victory" could not be used because reliable sources do not call it such, but if they do refer to it as such then I don't see why it should be in the infobox. I've also read through the 2023 discussion on this and it seemed like a whole lot of nothing being agreed on by anyone. DervotNum4 (talk) 05:09, 25 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I'm of the same opinion, that's why I added the sources in the aftermath pointing to Commonwealth victory. I'll leave it to consensus with that added weight. Eastfarthingan (talk) 13:05, 25 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]
allikas: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Indonesia%E2%80%93Malaysia_confrontation