The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge to Los Angeles Dodgers minor league players. (non-admin closure) Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:02, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Justin Orenduff (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

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Non-notable minor league player who ended up never reaching the major leagues. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 16:52, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Noting that the Pan-American Games note is quasi-convincing, so I'll consider myself neutral on this one right now. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 18:04, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Further noting that now that he's come out of retirement, I'm fine with the merge suggestion below. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 16:58, 2 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Baseball-related deletion discussions. —Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 16:53, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. — • Gene93k (talk) 17:39, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. Pitched for Team U.S.A. in international competition in 2003. Spanneraol (talk) 20:45, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Orenduff did play for the U.S. national team in 2003, but it was the collegiate team ([1]). The only competition that the 2003 collegiate team participated in that might be interpreted as an "international amateur or professional competition[s] at the highest level" was the 2003 Pan American Games ([2]). Unfortunately, the way statistics are shown on the USA Baseball website, it's difficult to tell if he actually played in the Pan Am Games, because it only shows players' cumulative season stats, not game-by-game stats. It does say he appeared in 6 of the 29 games the team played that year ([3]). —KuyaBriBri^Talk 21:08, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • Response. Orenduff pitched a two-hit shutout to lead Team U.S.A. into the semi-finals in the Pan Am games according to this source [4]. Spanneraol (talk) 22:27, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      • Fair enough. But does competing in the Pan Am Games or any of the other international competitions that the USA national collegiate team competed in in 2003 confer notability under the "highest international competition" criterion of WP:ATHLETE? (that's not a leading question; I truly don't know) —KuyaBriBri^Talk 02:39, 13 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        • Personally, I would consider it to be so, in part because the members of Team USA (including Orenduff) took the silver medal that year. That's a pretty prominent award. -Hit bull, win steak^(Moo!) 12:51, 15 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        • I went ahead and added a medals table to his article. -Hit bull, win steak^(Moo!) 13:01, 15 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      • I have raised the question of whether Pan Am Games participants are notable at Wikipedia talk:Notability (sports), as I believe that is where the policy should be asked/discussed. Please do not interpret this as a move to delay or otherwise circumvent the AfD process. I abstain from !voting in this discussion and will decide on an appropriate action (another AfD, DRV, or leave it alone) if/when consensus on interpretation of policy is reached. —KuyaBriBri^Talk 15:47, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:28, 19 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:05, 27 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Merge to Los Angeles Dodgers minor league players. This article currently fails WP:GNG by lacking significant coverage in multiple sources that is not WP:ROUTINE. I am not convinced per WP:NSPORT that the Pan-Am games is a "major international amateur or professional competition at the highest level" such as the Olympics or World Baseball Classic, nor is there consensus at WT:Notability_(sports)#Baseball_participants_in_Pan_American_Games that Pan-Am games for baseball qualifies for presumed notability. Note that even if Pan-Am games was considered the highest level, WP:NSPORTS only presumes notability but allows that "the meeting of any of these criteria does not mean that an article must be kept." This person seems to be a WP:Run-of-the-mill minor league player not notable enough for a standalone article. —Bagumba (talk) 00:18, 2 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge to Los Angeles Dodgers minor league players per Bagumba. Insufficient notability for a stand-alone article.--PinkBull 16:04, 2 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.