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> You convinced me on BRef not being a self-published source. I've struck that part. (link)

Can you expand on why you now don't think Sports Reference / Baseball Reference is WP:SELFPUBLISHED?

I'm trying to gather my thoughts on the subject, perhaps for an RFC or WP:RSN discussion in the future.

The New York Times tells us "Sean Forman started Baseball-Reference.com as a hobby while working toward a doctorate. He now has multiple sites, which generated more than a billion page views last year. [...] In 2007, Forman still fit the stats nerd stereotype, working out of the basement of his home and staying up until 1 a.m. updating or improving the website."

This would seem to match the WP:SPS definition of "Anyone can create a personal web page, self-publish a book, or claim to be an expert."

In the years since, he has hired some employees. But I don't see any evidence that anything has changed about the fundamental lack of editorial control or resemblance to a traditional publishing organization.

(Note that I probably agree it may fit "Self-published sources may be considered reliable if published by an established subject-matter expert...", but that would still be a SPS.)

Any thoughts appreciated. PK-WIKI (talk) 21:46, 5 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah. Part of it was diplomatic - whether or not BRef is self published isn't that important for the Kershaw RfC since so many secondary sources list him as a 3x champion. Dropping that part of my !vote hopefully will allow people to focus more on the more important parts of the argument (NPOV). But more broadly, it does seem to be the consensus that BRef and Sports Reference is reliable. Looking at WP:SPS, we can look at the examples listed. It isn't a personal website as it is a business. It isn't a open wiki because the public can't edit it. It isn't a personal or group blog or Internet forum posting, it's a stats database.

he has hired some employees He has 42 full time employees. You can find on their blog times they correct incorrect data.

Lastly, WP:SPS does have a note defining exactly what Wikipedia means by a self published source: Self-published material is characterized by the lack of independent reviewers (those without a conflict of interest) validating the reliability of the content. I see no evidence of the lack of independent reviewers.

I'll contact Sports Reference and ask them about their editorial control and correction of incorrect data. I'll post here when they respond!

Esb5415 (talk) (C) 14:16, 6 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It would seem to be quite a "hack" if anyone can launder their self-published website into a reliable source for Wikipedia simply by opening an LLC and hiring someone else to press the "publish" button on new posts!

Would my local car dealership be a self-published source? It isn't a personal website as it is a business. It isn't a open wiki because the public can't edit it. It isn't a personal or group blog or Internet forum posting, it's a car dealership. The owner has hired 42 full-time employees to write articles for him. They fix innacurate data on their pages when people email them corrections.

Interested in what they say in the email. PK-WIKI (talk) 16:10, 6 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hello! Voting in the 2025 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on Monday, 1 December 2025. All eligible users are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2025 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add {{NoACEMM}} to your user talk page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:36, 18 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]