Talk:Operation Matterhorn
| Operation Matterhorn has been listed as one of the Warfare good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | |||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||
| Current status: Good article | |||||||||||||
| This article is rated A-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Images
A map or maps would be helpful; show locations of bases in China, targets in Japan, supply routes. The article refers to all. — Otherwise, the article is B-class. PKKloeppel (talk) 15:35, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Operation Matterhorn. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
- Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120218201259/http://www.intergate.com/~sandcrab/China_Bases.htm to http://www.intergate.com/~sandcrab/China_Bases.htm
- Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131213230558/http://www.intergate.com/~sandcrab/ to http://www.intergate.com/~sandcrab/
- Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20050311211933/http://www.usaaf.net/ww2/hittinghome/hittinghomepg5.htm to http://www.usaaf.net/ww2/hittinghome/hittinghomepg5.htm
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).
- If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
- If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 11:39, 25 December 2017 (UTC)
GA review
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
- This review is transcluded from Talk:Operation Matterhorn/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Nominator: Hawkeye7 (talk · contribs) 04:29, 6 February 2025 (UTC)
Reviewer: Matarisvan (talk · contribs) 06:13, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
Hi Hawkeye7, I will review this nomination. It's a shame this review was not picked up for so long. I will try to get it completed within a reasonable amount of time. Matarisvan (talk) 06:13, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
- @Matarisvan Hey were are we with this review? IntentionallyDense (Contribs) 17:36, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
- @IntentionallyDense, my apologies, I haven't been able to start yet. I hope to get the review finished by the end of this month. Cheers Matarisvan (talk) 17:44, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
Prose and image review
Hi Hawkeye7, I did a prose review and made some copy edits myself. I hope those are ok with you. I will post my comments on the prose soon, there are just a few. Also, the images don't have alt texts, would it be ok if I added these? Cheers Matarisvan (talk) 09:15, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
- @Hawkeye7, my comments on the prose:
- “The JWPC also considered targeting,”: Targeting what?
- "Targeting" is the process of selecting a target, so the prose is correct. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:29, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
- Consider splitting the paragraph after the 58th Bombardment Wing table? It is too long.
Browser artefact. Split. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:29, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
- Is there any photograph of any of Saunders, Wolfe, Arnold, Carmichael et al. together? I think it could be added in the Command section, near the long paragraph.
- I don't have one. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:29, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
- In the Yawata sections, why do we write “Yawata” when all the links and the table point to “Yahata”?
The location is known as both "Yawata" and "Yahata" in English. I chose to use the first spelling since the steel works uses that in its English-language materials and is the form used in the sources and the Featured Article Bombing of Yawata (June 1944), although there is also a Bombing of Yahata. Standardised on "Yawata" Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:29, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
- Any assessments for the damage inflicted during the following missions: Sasebo, Omura 1, Malegon, Singapore Docks, Omura 2 and 3, Mukden 1 and 2, and Shinchiku?
In most cases because no damage was observed. Added information about each raid's damage. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:29, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
- We say the second bridge targeted was the Rama VII in the body, but in the Combat missions table, we say the Rama VI bridge was targeted twice, and Rama VII was not. Which one do we mean?
Typo. Corrected. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:29, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
- For the assessment section, did no survey find the lack of training and the last moment changing of targets reasons for the meagre results of Matterhorn?
- The sources don't say that, but I don't disagree with you. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:29, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
- Ref #47 uses pp. for a single page.
Corrected. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:29, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
- Ref #114 uses p. for multiple pages.
Corrected. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:29, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
- In the bibliography, link to Ray S. Cline?
Gosh, I did not know about him. Added. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:29, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
- Location of publication needed for Haulman 1999, Romanus and Sunderland 1956.
- In Li 2020, I think we don’t need the “Private Limited” in the publisher name.
Deleted. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:29, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
- “The JWPC also considered targeting,”: Targeting what?
- Matarisvan (talk) 15:03, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
- All points addressed. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:29, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
- @Hawkeye7, looks good. Here goes the review of the image licenses:
- The Cairo Conference group photo requires a copyright tag. I think PD-70 should suffice.
- It already has a copyright tag: PD-AustraliaGov. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:56, 28 April 2025 (UTC)
- The Showa factory photo needs a source and the exact date or year it was published.
- Being a postcard, it was published when it was produced, and since the steelworks was dismantled by the Russians in 1945, it must have been before then. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:56, 28 April 2025 (UTC)
- For the Hankou bombing photo, the qq.com link should be removed and the archives,gov link should be moved to first.
- The Cairo Conference group photo requires a copyright tag. I think PD-70 should suffice.
- The licensing for all the other images is ok. Would it be alright if I added the alt texts myself? Cheers
- @Hawkeye7, looks good. Here goes the review of the image licenses:
- All points addressed. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:29, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
- Sure. No problem. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:56, 28 April 2025 (UTC)
Matarisvan (talk) 10:41, 28 April 2025 (UTC)
- @Hawkeye7, I have added alt texts for all the images. As QPQ, you please add your comments to the Northrop YF-23 and Felice Beato FARs? Both have been open for a long time and your comments as a MILHIST veteran would help closing them. My comments on the source review:
- Is World War II on Deadline a reliable source? Any reviews or publishing history of the author which can support its case?
Meh. Not needed, so removed. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 09:17, 1 May 2025 (UTC)
- Is Royal Collins Publishers reliable? Any reviews of their book cited here, Li 2020?
- Any reviews of Schwabe 2015 and Mays 2016?
- Is the first link in the External links necessary? The other 3 are alright.
Deleted. I thought the training film on how to takeoff in a B-29 was awesome. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 09:17, 1 May 2025 (UTC)
- Is World War II on Deadline a reliable source? Any reviews or publishing history of the author which can support its case?
- Matarisvan (talk) 08:06, 1 May 2025 (UTC)
- Reminder for reviewer just in case. Setergh (talk) 23:13, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
- @Hawkeye7, there are ~220 refs and I will review 5% of them, that is 11 refs. Spot checks:
- #2: ok.
- #9: ok.
- #37, #38: ok.
- #40: ok.
- #79, #80: Both links to the National Archive don’t load.
- #82: The original link to the RAF Watton Wes site returns a 404 not found. It has also not been archived well on archive.org, all 5 captures don’t load. You will have to replace this ref.
- #115: ok.
- #117: ok.
- #168: ok.
- Consider adding URL-access=registration to the two Times Machine sources we have used?
- That’s all on the source review. Cheers Matarisvan (talk) 08:12, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
- Refs 79 and 80 both load for me. Ref 82 also loads, both the first and last captures are okay. Added
|URL-access=registrationto the Times Machine references. As a aside: in statistical sampling, it is the number of samples, not the percentage of the population that is important. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 19:46, 5 May 2025 (UTC)- @Hawkeye7, everything looks good then. Promoting to GA. Cheers Matarisvan (talk) 16:27, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
- Refs 79 and 80 both load for me. Ref 82 also loads, both the first and last captures are okay. Added
RAF Chengtu
Perhaps readers and editors interested in this topic might be able to help improve RAF Chengtu, which seems to have emerged from one of the based around Chengtu. Klbrain (talk) 12:08, 10 May 2025 (UTC)
May 2025 MOSNUM and MOSMILITARY
User:Hawkeye7 please explain how my edits don't comply with MOSNUM, when numbering is used inconsistently across this page. For example you changed "It took 63 minutes to get them all in the air." to "It took sixty-three minutes to get them all in the air." But the preceding sentence reads "Of the 112 bombers that were readied for the mission, 98 took off from India." Why is that? Similar inconsistencies occur across the page. You have restored various duplicate links like Hankou, Sortie etc. In relation to MOSMILITARY there seems to be a bigger issue to resolve. All the pages for different ranks of General and Colonel use capital for the first word and small for the second, so if that's how it's done for all the master pages, why are you using caps for both words? Mztourist (talk) 03:03, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
- Using caps for both words in military ranks is correct when used as titles, as is lower case of the second word in article titles on ranks. MOS:MILITARY: "Military ranks follow the same capitalization guidelines as given under § Titles of people, below. For example, Brigadier General John Smith, but John Smith was a brigadier general."
- The article on brigadier general should start with a capital letter. MOS:TITLECAPS: "For Wikipedia article titles that are not the titles of works and are not in other languages, the English Wikipedia uses sentence case." Hawkeye7 (discuss) 05:55, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
- That doesn't address the issue. The Brigadier general page isn't Brigadier General, why is that? Why every time do you need to make the link Brigadier general | Brigadier General? Mztourist (talk) 03:04, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
- "Brigadier General" is used when it is the title of a person. Otherwise we use lower case except when starting a sentence or an article title, when it is sentence case. Because the article title has a lower case "g" and a disambiguation in parentheses, I use a redirect. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 08:32, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
- That doesn't address the issue. The Brigadier general page isn't Brigadier General, why is that? Why every time do you need to make the link Brigadier general | Brigadier General? Mztourist (talk) 03:04, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
- MOS:NUMERAL: "Generally, in article text: Integers from zero to nine are spelled out in words. Integers greater than nine expressible in one or two words may be expressed either in numerals or in words (16 or sixteen, 84 or eighty-four, 200 or two hundred). When written as words, integers from 21 to 99 that are not multiples of 10 are hyphenated (including when part of a larger number): fifty-six and fifty-six thousand, but five hundred and five thousand.". Consistency is not required. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 05:55, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
- Inconsistency, particularly in the same paragraph is jarring and frankly ridiculous. Mztourist (talk) 03:04, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
- Words are generally preferred over digits, which most people find jarring. I deliberately switch when the context changes to avoid confusion. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 08:34, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
- Inconsistency, particularly in the same paragraph is jarring and frankly ridiculous. Mztourist (talk) 03:04, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
- I have done a pass through the article and ensured that the repeat links have all been removed. MOS:DUPLINK: Link a term at most once per major section... Major sections are generally detailed sections with a level-2 heading" Hawkeye7 (discuss) 06:16, 16 May 2025 (UTC)







