The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. There is understandable uncertainty around political notability and over time, this may ultimately end up merged when the election is not a current event. However at the current time and given the sources identified during the discussion, there is consensus that Sin's career outside of the election has been noted so it's not a 1E situation. Star Mississippi 14:01, 8 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Checkley Sin

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Checkley Sin (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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non notable producer and non notable political candidate - fails WP:NPOL. CUPIDICAE💕 19:37, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • keep - See 2022 Hong Kong Chief Executive election, particularly the chart near the bottom of the article. You want to delete one of two candidates running?!!!! Deletion of articles on Wikipedia states "Wikipedia policy encourages editors to use deletion as a "last resort" following attempts to improve an article, for instance by conducting additional research.". Instead, this article was AFD when it was only 2 sentences and 300 bytes in length. Now, it's 5,000 bytes and much longer.
WP:NPOL Meets the criteria of having significant press coverage.
WP:ENT Meets the criteria by having significant roles in multiple productions.
Mr. Sin is a candidate, the first candidate, for Hong Kong's Chief Executive (akin to President or Prime Minister). US presidential candidates are considered notable, even if they are in the Libertarian or Green Parties. Note: HK does not have the Democratic or Republican parties. Hong Kong is currently subject to draconian censorship and threat of arrest from the People's Republic of China so some leeway is warranted for freedom and democracy. This quote may disprove the non-notability. "From Ip Man to CE: film producer Checkley Sin joins election fray | The Standard...Checkley Sin Kwok-lam, the producer of the Ip Man series starring Donnie Yen Ji-dan, said he wants to improve ...Sin has been a political commentator since the unrest in 2019. He is known as a key opinion leader (KOL) for the pro-establishment camp, and his YouTube channel has 150,000 subscribers. https://www.thestandard.com.hk/breaking-news/section/4/186147/From-Ip-Man-to-CE:-film-producer-Checkley-Sin-joins-election-fray-%C2%A0%C2%A0 Also IMDB entry. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1641638/awards/?ref_=tt_awd Mr. Sin's Ip Man film WON an award in the Shanghai International Film Festival and was nominated for an award for the 2011 Hong Kong Film Awards.

NOTE: Mainland China probably wants this article deleted!

Problem: Some people may not know that Checkley Sin is his English name. His Chinese name is Sin Kwok Lam or Kwok Lam Sin. A Google search of Kwok Lam Sin yields 935,000 results with the first 10 pages almost exclusively about the man. Checkley Sin yields an additional 151,000 results.Charliestalnaker (talk) 19:48, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Anyone can be a candidate. That alone does not make him notable. CUPIDICAE💕 19:49, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Not true, not anyone. It is difficult to become a candidate in Hong Kong. Charliestalnaker (talk) 20:04, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
He is the first person to declare his candidacy for the Hong Kong Chief Executive Election, so he is notable in a way. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Studious Human (talk • contribs) 01:56, 31 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Actors and filmmakers and Hong Kong. Shellwood (talk) 19:56, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Businesspeople. CAPTAIN RAJU(T) 19:56, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - as I read the article he fails WP:GNG in general, and fails WP:POLITICIAN in particular. Notwithstanding the film Ip Man: The Final Fight he fails WP:FILMMAKER and WP:ENTERTAINER. The alleged wish of Mainland China to see the article deleted is irrelevant. See below: Springnuts (talk) 21:55, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Meets WP:GNG
    • www.scmp.com%2Fnews%2Fhong-kong%2Fpolitics%2Farticle%2F3163894%2Fhong-kong-film-producer-kung-fu-master-checkley-sin-throws&usg=AOvVaw0kgvxKkwbcgtuWhGMzxem_
    • https://sg.news.yahoo.com/sin-kwok-lam-donate-lau-kar-leung-39-035300979.html?msclkid=6a3822beab3e11ecb75791d962c57f83
    • https://sg.news.yahoo.com/sin-kwok-lam-dennis-needed-ask-084800228.html?msclkid=6a380825ab3e11eca3088c7cb12ea8e9 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Charliestalnaker (talk • contribs) 06:50, 24 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    • https://www.reuters.com/world/china/hong-kong-film-producer-says-he-wants-run-become-new-city-leader-2022-01-19/
    • www.dimsumdaily.hk%2Fcheckley-sin-kwok-lam-announces-decision-to-run-for-chief-executive-on-youtube%2F&usg=AOvVaw174X7hSVHKEthDU2o0aZZb
    • www.wsj.com%2Fmarket-data%2Fquotes%2FHK%2F8393%2Fcompany-people%2Fexecutive-profile%2F74810848&usg=AOvVaw3kV8CJqua7pScjRiP12rPI
    • www.thestandard.com.hk%2Fbreaking-news%2Fsection%2F4%2F186147%2FFrom-Ip-Man-to-CE%3A-film-producer-Checkley-Sin-joins-election-fray-%25C2%25A0%25C2%25A0&usg=AOvVaw3zCbTlMPymcKIDiB59W5S9
    • https://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/926450-hong-kong-filmmaker-checkley-sin-intends-to-run-in-citys-leadership-race
    • www.marketscreener.com%2Fbusiness-leaders%2FKwok-Lam-Sin-074P0V-E%2Fbiography%2F&usg=AOvVaw1oruwRU8iO9u1fkXCIgFFW
    • www.fandango.com%2Fpeople%2Fsin-kwok-lam-624744&usg=AOvVaw3WLtddHCHBZu0lgfp0IpOu
    • blackbeltmag.com%2Fproducer-of-ip-man-hong-kong-leadership&usg=AOvVaw3SURO1IvMsc_krddJMPsE3
    • www.themoviedb.org%2Fperson%2F1296142-kwok-lam-sin&usg=AOvVaw2iR54Z6paoAki1nIkRfkyo
    • sg.news.yahoo.com%2Fdennis-sues-mentor-sin-kwok-lam-090700161.html&usg=AOvVaw1UWvb7WqYJ5kOAkcaplR1w
    • www.jaynestars.com%2Ftag%2Fsin-kwok-lam%2F&usg=AOvVaw0tn89tlLnsn_aTwnVWhZp7
    • www.hkcinemagic.com%2Fen%2Fpeople.asp%3Fid%3D19287&usg=AOvVaw2wQesFU2kjcsZtrsW7U8Lq
    • www.devdiscourse.com%2Farticle%2Fentertainment%2F1888403-hong-kong-film-producer-says-he-wants-to-run-to-become-new-city-leader&usg=AOvVaw26YWlDasoi-RGOHKDIgqJG
    • usa.chinadaily.com.cn%2Fus%2F2017-12%2F03%2Fcontent_35175430.htm&usg=AOvVaw33I4XdOnEFqwocrRfmsa6o
    • www.gettyimages.com%2Fdetail%2Fnews-photo%2Fcheckley-sin-kwok-lam-director-and-general-manager-of-wing-news-photo%2F1126337965&usg=AOvVaw0DfWrAgC7h-Dphl1a12poV
    • www.malaymail.com%2Fnews%2Fworld%2F2022%2F01%2F19%2Ffilm-producer-and-kung-fu-master-checkley-sin-wants-to-run-hong-kong-as-lea%2F2036137&usg=AOvVaw2xauDa2q0fhFxnCP_MDtx8
    • www.taipeitimes.com%2FNews%2Fworld%2Farchives%2F2022%2F01%2F20%2F2003771748&usg=AOvVaw2cyuGqTqq8NYwkO1Xa_Kik
    • kungfumovieguide.com%2Fproducers%2Fcheckley-sin-kwok-lam%2F&usg=AOvVaw0JdRCrqbu43Ze7jPwDsNmg
    • www.aastocks.com%2Fen%2Fmobile%2Fnews.aspx%3Fnewsid%3DNOW.854671%26newstype%3D61%26newssource%3Dhk6&usg=AOvVaw3hb6HAatSr4GPuD3M0Cz6i
    • cityonfire.com%2Fw020120515302250712841%2F&usg=AOvVaw35vt1OztIh-MecpTTxHedP
    • movie.douban.com%2Fcelebrity%2F1327358%2F&usg=AOvVaw2o-7q1h9ibaE8ZYfgiUyYI
    • peopleai.com%2Ffame%2Fidentities%2Fkwok-lam-sin&usg=AOvVaw0LB0nzvyBbscj-jL0nMPfo
    • www.businesslive.co.za%2Fbd%2Fworld%2Fasia%2F2022-01-19-kung-fu-master-in-a-bid-to-rule-hong-kong%2F&usg=AOvVaw1CKGrjZrzh8smszVaGDJwK
    • wow-master-kung-fu-dan-produser-film-silat-sin-kwok-lam-calonkan-diri-jadi-pemimpin-hong-kong%3Fpage%3Dall&usg=AOvVaw1HFZnRZsbXvX3-HyBHx1nS
    • jateng.inews.id%2Fberita%2Fmaster-kungfu-sin-kwok-lam-umumkan-maju-di-pemilu-hong-kong&usg=AOvVaw2Rc6okGmR9KDc95UhMymQO
    • www.chinastory.cn%2Fspxqy%2Fenvideos%2F20210404%2F1012800000046191617520564042898794_1.html&usg=AOvVaw3W-UZysAG7O5wbBUSqgU0P
    • https://www.imdb.com/name/nm3881007/
    • hkmdb.com%2Fdb%2Fpeople%2Fview.mhtml%3Fid%3D41729%26display_set%3Deng&usg=AOvVaw02pdCqDxV16sjn-ijT1yPv
    • www.digital-morgue.de%2Fperson%2F20359%2Fkwok-lam-checkley-sin%2F&usg=AOvVaw0bE4QdohcLa0qX4G8GH47q
    • www.vudu.com%2Fcontent%2Fmovies%2Fdetails%2FIp-Man-The-Final-Fight%2F451744&usg=AOvVaw1J44gxZ7bnLqOVJ93_Tpi6
    • www.thestandard.com.hk%2Fsection-news%2Fsection%2F4%2F238291%2FSin-homes-in-on-lamma-%27super-jail%27&usg=AOvVaw1atoMdQkw79gMQ5jUiTXC-
    • www.straitstimes.com%2Fasia%2Feast-asia%2Fhong-kong-chief-executive-hopeful-is-not-afraid-to-shoot-from-the-hip&usg=AOvVaw0NJo_6s4QI4oxdfMV9zJzf
    • hongkongfp.com%2F2022%2F03%2F05%2Fselecting-a-new-chief-executive-delayed-and-disrupted-hong-kongs-first-election-cycle-since-beijings-overhaul-nearsits-end%2F&usg=AOvVaw2XjwsURUAb7g3jyWEnY73c
    • echo24.cz%2Fa%2FSiPNp%2Fmistr-kung-fu-chce-do-cela-hongkongu-behem-nepokoju-podporil-policii&usg=AOvVaw2eUl2Y5dvRmQyx5nCRwpOB
    This is, by far, not a complete list. Charliestalnaker (talk) 06:11, 24 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Can you please provide the best WP:THREE sources? Just skimming this list I see WP:IMDB, Douban, and The Movie DB, all of which are WP:SPS and not reliable sources. Jumpytoo Talk 17:43, 24 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't know about the WP:THREE essay but I randomly chose this citation https://sg.news.yahoo.com/sin-kwok-lam-donate-lau-kar-leung-39-035300979.html?msclkid=6a3822beab3e11ecb75791d962c57f83 and learned that Mr. Sin is Vice President of the World Wing Chun Union, made a HK$5 million (US$650,000) donation to the Lau Kar Leung Charity Foundation (which funds stuntmen's costs due to injury), and that Mr. Sin is a film director and producer. That's quite a bit of information that has nothing to do with his candidacy for head of government of Hong Kong, which is a big topic. Charliestalnaker (talk) 23:06, 24 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge to 2022 Hong Kong Chief Executive election. Most of the person's notability is related to this election. 2601:647:5800:1A1F:4CAE:9DE2:30BC:86D9 (talk) 22:33, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Problematic because his other professional achievements and biography would be censored and banned from the election article. Charliestalnaker (talk) 01:55, 25 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Draftify ivo Charliestalnaker's impressive list of sources, and also the current state of the article (undergoing extensive revision, so no actual content at the moment) Springnuts (talk) 08:56, 24 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete — Fails WP:NPOL, a bunch of mere announcements, press releases, and sources which I can classify under WP:QS I don’t know how this is mainspace worthy. Furthermore WP:1E largely applies here. Celestina007 (talk) 20:12, 25 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    This person has many, many citations. This person exceeds WP:1E. He is at least a 2 event person (film producer and leading presidential candidate). Even President Biden is only a 3 event man (Senator, VP, President). Some citations are from news organizations more reputable than others (like Reuters, Straits Times (of Singapore), South China Morning Post (akin to the Washington Post or more famous), etc. Just because he has some weak sources doesn't mean that all of his citations are bad. This is akin to a Presidential election and this candidate is the #2 most likely to win. That would be like deleting the Joe Biden article prior to the 2020 election! Even if he fails WP Politician, he passes as a movie producer. Both of those combined make him WP noteworthy. Charliestalnaker (talk) 23:54, 25 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • We should not delete this article. We should improve it instead. He is a notable candidate for the 2022 Hong Kong Chief Executive election. The serious grammatical errors in the page that causes the page to be unreadable to a number of users should not be the reason for deleting the page. Deletion should not be used as a tool for the improvement of the article at this moment. This last resort should come much later, as improvements are ongoing really fast. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Studious Human (talk • contribs) 07:52, 30 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 08:45, 1 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep I did the absolute minimum, searching for English-language sources using Google, excluding the term "election" and found lots of stuff, including [1],[2],[3], and [4] (some of which may be listed previously here). IMO, he meets WP:NBASIC without even considering WP:NPOL, which he may meet as well. Jacona (talk) 13:05, 1 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. The subject seems to be notable as a film producer, although the article seems to exaggerate some of his credits. For example, he is listed here as director, storywriter, martial arts director, and publisher (?) for The Legend Is Born: Ip Man, although our article about the film and IMDb both say that Herman Yau was the film's director, with Sin only being a producer. Also, Sin being the first declared candidate for Chief Executive of Hong Kong doesn't have any particular significance, except perhaps to some Wikipedia editors who are looking for content to write about in the article about the election. Unless Sin can secure 188 nominations from the 1,500 members of the Election Committee, he will not even be eligible to run. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 00:17, 3 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
Allikas: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Checkley_Sin
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