Talk:Shalom Nagar

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Theleekycauldron talk 06:54, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Created by Jonathan Deamer (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 10 past nominations.

Jonathan Deamer (talk) 11:11, 4 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

  • AfD is now closed. The article is new enough and long enough for DYK, and is neutral in tone and well sourced. The copyvio score is yellow, simply due to a cited quotation, so this is fine. The hook is interesting and appropriate in tone for the topic; it is validated by the cited source. QPQ has been done. Good to go! Chaiten1 (talk) 18:38, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

GA review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Shalom Nagar/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Jonathan Deamer (talk · contribs) 17:22, 7 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: Borsoka (talk · contribs) 12:31, 11 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

  1. Is it well written?
    A. The prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct:
    B. It complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation:
  2. Is it verifiable with no original research, as shown by a source spot-check?
    A. It contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline:
    B. Reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose):
    C. It contains no original research:
    D. It contains no copyright violations nor plagiarism:
  3. Is it broad in its coverage?
    A. It addresses the main aspects of the topic:
    B. It stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style):
  4. Is it neutral?
    It represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each:
  5. Is it stable?
    It does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute:
  6. Is it illustrated, if possible, by images?
    A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content:
    B. Images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:
  7. Overall:
    Pass or Fail:

Image review

Done. Jonathan Deamer (talk) 16:38, 11 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Source review

  • Reference 12: a date is missing.
Added. Jonathan Deamer (talk) 19:19, 12 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Do JNS.org, jfi.org, fr.de publish reliable sources?
  • Reference 4, 5, and 7 do not verify the statement (and according to my calculation, reference 7/worldisraelnews gives an alternative year for his arrival).
Source 4, BBC, says "moved to Israel as an orphan in 1948". I've removed the Jerusalem Post source as this doesn't verify the statement. I've included the fact that sources (World Israel News) differ on the exact year. Jonathan Deamer (talk) 17:25, 26 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Each date in the second sentence of the first paragraph should be verified at the end of the sentence.
Done. Jonathan Deamer (talk) 17:25, 26 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

  • Add his full name when he is first mentioned in the main text.
Done Jonathan Deamer (talk) 18:20, 12 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • ... before moving to Israel in 1948...before moving to Rosh HaAyin... Rephrase.
Done Jonathan Deamer (talk) 08:24, 15 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • He came from a religious family, later becoming secular before returning to Orthodox Judaism after he executed Eichmann. Delete ", later becoming secular before returning to Orthodox Judaism after he executed Eichmann" (because these facts will be repeated in the article). I would move the part "He came from a religious family." to be the section's third sentence.
Done Jonathan Deamer (talk) 08:24, 15 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • After his military service... Is "his" necessary?
Done. Use of "his" in this way feels like it might be my British English / talking from the cultural perspective of military service not being standard as in Israel. So have wikilinked Conscription in Israel. Jonathan Deamer (talk) 08:24, 15 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • ...joined the Israel Prison Service When?
Sources don't specify an exact year. Jonathan Deamer (talk) 12:47, 15 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Do we know when he married his wife and some info about her?
Added her name per source. Will look for further info. Jonathan Deamer (talk) 12:47, 15 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Done. "He was survived by his wife Ora, and three of their four children." seems to be the main other detail relating to her, which I've added. Jonathan Deamer (talk) 09:59, 22 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • ...for the Israel Prison Service...at the time... Delete.
@Borsoka Sorry, which bits should be deleted? Both occurrences of "at the time" in the Adolf Eichmann section? Jonathan Deamer (talk) 08:24, 15 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • ...whose families were killed...he was randomly selected... Why not past perfect?
  • Link furlough.
Done Jonathan Deamer (talk) 19:14, 12 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Write and link "Post-traumatic stress disorder" instead of PTSD.
Done Jonathan Deamer (talk) 19:14, 12 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Introduce Levinger with two or three words.
Done, "settler leader". Jonathan Deamer (talk) 08:49, 15 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • ... Nagar was asked... By whom?
@Borsoka Having checked multiple sources (added The Times alongside existing Haaretz one), info exactly who asked doesn't appear to be available. Is there a change you'd suggest to make this clear? Jonathan Deamer (talk) 08:49, 15 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Introduce Demjanjuk with one or two words.
Done. Jonathan Deamer (talk) 08:49, 15 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • ... by journalists... Some more info? For instance, Israeli/...?
Added "Israeli". Not sure there's more in sources that isn't already covered in next sentence?
  • ...in the great mitzvah of wiping out Amalek... A short explanation?
Done, but suggested improvements especially welcome on the phrasing of this. Jonathan Deamer (talk) 12:47, 15 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Explain kollel with two or three words.
Done Jonathan Deamer (talk) 14:01, 15 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

An important article. Thank you for it. Borsoka (talk) 13:18, 11 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Borsoka Thanks for picking up this review! I may do a couple of small bits in response to your comments above over the next couple of days, but will properly engage in earnest at the weekend. Jonathan Deamer (talk) 18:16, 12 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for this interesting article. Consider requesting a peer review to get ideas for further improvements before a FAC. Borsoka (talk) 02:54, 27 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks @Borsoka for your efforts on the review and the helpful feedback along the way! I appreciate the collaboration. Jonathan Deamer (talk) 11:32, 27 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Peer review

Shalom Nagar

This article's recently been listed as a GA and I'd like to work to get it to FA. Any and all feedback appreciated. Jonathan Deamer (talk) 12:33, 9 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I will do this one. History6042😊 (Contact me) 22:42, 30 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Alt texts for images will be needed.
  • It is better to have all sources archived.
  • Publishers/websites in sources with either need the URL or the website name, not a mix.
  • Some sources are missing dates.
  • There is a source on the Eichmann article about when exactly the execution occurred.
That is all I could find, I am not familiar with the FA process but these will definitely help. History6042😊 (Contact me) 23:03, 30 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@History6042 Many thanks for this helpful feedback! Jonathan Deamer (talk) 20:55, 23 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Alt text now in place.
  • Sources now consistently have website name, not URL, with wikilinks where appropriate.
  • Dates added to sources where available.
  • Clarified that "sources differ on when exactly the execution occurred", and added one such source from the Eichmann article.
Jonathan Deamer (talk) 07:30, 6 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
And now archive links are in place for all sources. Any feedback of course still welcome, but as this request is a couple of months old with no comments from anyone other than me for over a month I'll close it. Jonathan Deamer (talk) 22:27, 10 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Mentorship ahead of potential Featured Article Candidate nomination

Per discussion at Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates#Seeking a mentor for my first FAC nomination, setting up a space for any feedback from @FunkMonk.

One particular area I’d welcome feedback on is the lead length. It was made much more concise following feedback during the GA process, which gives me pause before expanding it again in preparation for FAC. Jonathan Deamer (talk) 19:01, 27 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  • I'll have a read soon. At a cursory glance, I'd expect the intro to at least mention the method in which Eichmann was executed, as I assume this event is what most people will look up this article for, so it should probably have a bit more weight. Will evaluate the overall length when I've read the entire article (as it should summarise all of it). Added some preliminary comments below. FunkMonk (talk) 19:10, 27 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'd link kosher butcher, or at least kosher, if the former term doesn't have an article.

:::Yeah, I would however link Yemenite Jews already in his early life section, around " born into a religious family in Yemen". In the intro as well. FunkMonk (talk) 13:37, 31 August 2025 (UTC) [reply]

  • Spell out Eichmann's name and link it in the image caption that mentions him. Perhaps even introduce him in the caption, such as "Nazi war criminal" or such.
  • "and feared it was an attempt to convert them." To what?
  • The Adolf Eichmann section could be called "execution of Adolf Eichmann" or such to better establish context.
  • Being a fairly short article, I'm wondering if more sources could be found on for example Google Books or Google Scholar. Sources you don't have access to can be requested at WP:RX.
Many thanks, have actioned all items above (marked with strikethrough) except the Google Books one, which I'll look at next. Jonathan Deamer (talk) 14:28, 29 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps there is even a book biography of him? FunkMonk (talk) 13:37, 31 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I'm confident there's no book biography of Nagar. Jonathan Deamer (talk) 20:21, 12 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Google Scholar:
Google Books:
  • To Save a People - brief mentions of Nagar, doesn't add anything
  • The Nagar's Nacht / Eichmann's Executioner novel already covered
  • Amnestry International 1998 annual report - looks promising, but an unrelated Shalom Nagar
Jonathan Deamer (talk) 20:28, 12 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Lots added to the Eichmann section from "Hangman's Perspective". I think that's all I can get from Google Scholar / Google Books. Jonathan Deamer (talk) 16:03, 14 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Haaretz and The Times of Israel report his year of birth as 1936" perhaps state for context that this was in their obituaries of him.
  • Perhaps link Jewish secularism.
  • "At the age of 16, Nagar joined the army,[1] and two years later, he joined the elite Israel Defense Forces" Since the army is the IDF, wouldn't it be less convoluted to just say "At the age of 16, Nagar joined the Israel Defense Forces,[1] and two years later, he joined the army's elite Paratroopers Brigade"?
  • "ensured that the Eichmann guards were Sephardic" Yemenite Jews technically aren't Sephardis (Iberian Jews and others who follow their rites) but Mizrachis, so while the point of course is here that Ashkenazis were not chosen, I wonder if anything in the sources would support just saying "non-Ashkenazi Jews or "Sephardis and other non-Ashkenasi Jews"? I think the two groups were colloquially conflated at the time, so if that's the case, not much we can do.
On reflection, I think I'm being too literal. The Telegraph supports saying from "Middle East, North Africa and Spain", and makes clear that the intention was "non-Ashkenazi".
Some of the sources used at Mizrahi Jews could be bought in to explain the point: eg. "'Mizrahi' is distinct from, but often overlaps with, the term, “Sephardi,” and the two terms are sometimes used interchangeably." but I think this overcomplicates things. Jonathan Deamer (talk) 13:15, 14 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

*"If we lose one Yemenite, it's no great loss" anything else about him in the context of early Israeli discrimination against and assimilation of Yemenite and other Mizrachi Jews?

  • You may disagree with this, but to establish context, which is one of the FAC criteria, I'd give some more brief detail about who Eichmann actually was and what he did, and perhaps even how he was caught, so that the significance of this event becomes clearer.
  • "while he was out walking with his wife, Ora Nagar" any other details about them as a couple, when were they married, was she also Yemenite, when were their children born, etc.
  • Link Angel of Death?
  • Link Palestinians.
  • Link Judaism and Jews.
  • "from King Hussein's former stables" Specify he was the king of Jordan.
  • "Rabbi Amnon Yitzchak " not sure rabbi should be part of the same link as the name. If linked, it should link to the rabbi article.
  • Link Talmudic study.
  • "later that saying that he was unwilling" what is the first "that" for?
  • "Nagar was present at the Cave of the Patriarchs massacre, in which 29 people were killed by a far-right Zionist extremist" could name the killer already there after extremist. A but odd to only mention and link him some sentences later.
  • "and three of their four children." Anything on how the one child died?
  • Have you watched the documentary? May help find more sources and context.
  • "A German-language novelization of his story, Nagars Nacht ("Nagar's Night")" give author and date.
  • Any more info of his time in the army? What battles and other activities did he participate in?
  • "in which 29 people were killed" should specify they were Palestinians.
  • " but left after the Cave of the Patriarchs massacre." likewise in the intro, should specify the massacred were Palestinians.
  • "Nagar immigrated to Israel" could mention in the intro when.
  • I think the intro could mention the phycological consequences the execution had for Nagar and that it made him religious again.
  • Citations should be as consistently formatted as possible, but now I see some of them lack author names. Also check for other inconsistencies.
  • Have made various fixes here: included author names, used web vs. news template and work vs. website more consistently, adjsuted use of language parameter, archive parameters, date format, empty parameters. Jonathan Deamer (talk) 21:02, 14 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Looks like practically everything is done? I think it looks ready for FAC, and I'd support it when there. FunkMonk (talk) 17:49, 15 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@FunkMonk Yes, I think so too! Thanks again for all the helpful input. Anything in particular you'd suggest I do as part of my nomination aside from following the instructions at Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates#Nominating and adding a bit of a blurb about the article and process it's been through so far? Jonathan Deamer (talk) 20:17, 15 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]
To prepare for what's in store I'd probably read through the comments of FACs about similar subjects. Expect a lot of nitpicking about wording and formatting, but otherwise I think you're good to go. FunkMonk (talk) 21:49, 15 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Done! Jonathan Deamer (talk) 15:20, 16 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]
allikas: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Shalom_Nagar