Talk:Nisse (folklore)

Edit

Why did someone edit the tomte picture into a "nisse" picture? The illustration of a nisse is just... Some strange "art". My tomte picture is a real illustration of what the people actually believed in. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hom san (talk • contribs) 18:07, 10 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

While Hom san complained that in this edit the File:Tomte.jpg (carta 1539) was deleted, it so happens I inserted a different version (file:Olaus(1555)-Hist septentrionalibus-p127-stable-tomte(detail center).jpg) labeled "demon" with secondary sources saying it showed a tomte/nisse.
The picture is actually from Olaus Magnus (1555) Historia de gentibus septentrionalibus, slightly different from the pic in Olaus Carta Marina (1539) image (file:Carta Marina-B-k-daemon.jpg)--Kiyoweap (talk) 23:21, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tomten

1st) The books of Astrid Lindgren, a Swedish author, have been translated into English. The word used is "Tomten", never "Tomte" or "Nisse". I believe that most English speakers who know this concept will have come across it through these books.

2nd) I sometimes receive a catalog which sells "Tomten" dolls and such, again the terms Tomte and Nisse are not used.

3rd) Google gives more results for Tomten (about 18 million) than Tomte (about 7 million) and Nisse (about 8 million) combined.

4th, and perhaps most important) The word "Tomte" does not look like an English word and does not have an obvious pronunciation. Thus the word really can't catch on with the general public. Written as "Tomten" it has a single obvious pronunciation. This probably explains why the word is translated as "Tomten".

I do not want to go to all of the effort to change the name of this page, but as an English speaker I am sure that Tomten is the correct name for this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:3135:4190:851C:9F54:C2:1D7 (talk) 01:19, 24 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The reason is explained below #Tomten, Tomte that "Tomten" is the definitie article suffixed form, and means "the Tomte"; it is common to use the form "tomte", as occurs in Thorpe's translation into English.
Astrid Lindgren may be an eminent children's book author, but the fact her English translator or publishing house decided to use "Tomten" to market the character does not fall under expert opinion. --Kiyoweap (talk) 23:34, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 2 August 2025

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (non-admin closure) Tenshi! (Talk page) 19:07, 16 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Nisse (folklore) → Nordic gnome – Nisse doesnt adapt well into English, and Nisse/Tomte etc is traditionally translated as gnome in English (compare garden gnome > da. havenisse, no. hagenisse, sv. trädgårdstomte, fi. puutarhatonttu). "Nordic gnome" is how i personally as a native Swede would describe the folklore to someone unfamiliar with the concept and i belive that title is much better for such people. Blockhaj (talk) 12:01, 2 August 2025 (UTC) — Relisting. TarnishedPathtalk 14:01, 9 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. Article titles should follow the principle of using the subject's commonly accepted name in reliable sources, as stated in WP:COMMONNAME.
"Nisse" is the standard term for this figure in English-language academic and cultural writing on Scandinavian folklore. "Nordic gnome" is not a recognised term and appears to be your own novel, descriptive phrase rather than an attested name. Wikipedia articles are never the place to invent or propagate new terminology (WP:NEO and WP:NOTDICT).
The purpose of an article is to document and explain the concept as it exists, not to translate or rebrand it based on individual preference or personal analogy, such as to other folklore figures (such as "garden gnome"). Unless there is significant evidence that "Nordic gnome" is the widely-used term to refer to the nisse in reliable English sources, the article should retain its current name. Qpwoeizmxnr (talk) 09:56, 3 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
But its not a rebranding. The translation gnome is widely used: Gnomes (book) > sv:Tomtar (bok)
https://www.whidbeyislandprovisions.com/post/scand-gnomes?srsltid=AfmBOorzeh232WjjGsjQhJD4SkTGJKcXcwYDd-O4ofjdwZ-bq89ppbpD
https://www.livinganordiclife.com/post/our-nordic-friend-the-fj%C3%B8snisse-nordic-barn-gnome
https://www.canr.msu.edu/resources/crafts-around-the-world-series-europe-norwegian-gnome-nisse
https://www.tomtar.se/swedish-gnome/ Blockhaj (talk) 01:31, 4 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Disagree. The translations also includes brownies, and Santa's elves. So there is not single viable translation, therefore we need to use native terms to cover the whole tradition.Carewolf (talk) 09:20, 5 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Brownie, elf, pixie and even puck are all obsolete, those were relevant close to a century ago, today gnome is the main translation. Blockhaj (talk) 16:41, 5 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Note: WikiProject Holidays, WikiProject Holidays/Christmas task force, WikiProject Denmark, WikiProject Norway, WikiProject Folklore, WikiProject Mythology, WikiProject Sweden, and WikiProject Christianity/Noticeboard have been notified of this discussion. TarnishedPathtalk 13:59, 9 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
allikas: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Nisse_(folklore)