The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.‎

The result was Merge and re-direct to The Ensworth School. Non-admin closure. Camaron1 | Chris 18:00, 1 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ensworth High School (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

Contested PROD (said that high schools are "notable by default"), which is terribly inaccurate. Even schools (whether they be high, middle, elementary) need to assert some notability, which this one clearly does not in its current revision. Rjd0060 03:48, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Due to some confusion, this shouldn't have been AfD'd. The article already exists under The Ensworth School. I think that article should be merged into Ensworth High School and The Ensworth School be deleted. This AfD should probably close. - Rjd0060 16:44, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It should be the other way around, though...The Ensworth School is the name of the school (which is K-12, not just a high school). Ensworth High School should be a redirect or deleted altogether. Smashville 17:59, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I am thoroughly confused. Maybe since you seem to know and understand all of this, you should be bold and do it? - Rjd0060 19:54, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment/mea culpa: Due to 1) lack of seeing the AfD notice at the top of the page (duh) and 2) not knowing about the original article The Ensworth School, I moved the Ensworth High School article to Ensworth School. Once I realized what I had done, I left a note on the main article page explaining what I did so that the AfD trail wouldn't be further screwed up. My apologies — my only excuse is that I'm doped up on cold medicine right now. Having said all that, here's my out-of-turn vote:
  • Delete and redirect to The Ensworth School, but only because of the existence of the main article. Yes, I know that there is no official established policy that high schools are "notable by default" (that was the phrase I used when I deleted the {{prod}}), it has become a de facto policy that high schools are notable. This one is no exception. High schools are normally notable because they garner news coverage through their sports teams. Until we finally come up with an official policy (and I wish we would), I see no reason to deviate from the current trend that finds all high schools to be notable by default. Just because this is a private all-grades school does not make this school deviate from the norm into non-notability. - Realkyhick (Talk to me) 20:26, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete No assertion of notability (technically that means it meets the Speedy Deletion criteria, but admins never want to do that for some reason). And before anyone brings that opinion piece of WP:OUTCOMES in, schools are NOT exempt from notability guidelines. TJ Spyke 03:57, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for mentioning outcomes. I hate that essay. - Rjd0060 03:58, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Me too. During my absence from Wikipedia (early July-early September), people started using that when they voted Keep in school articles. It's just the opinion of some editors, but some people act like it's a policy or guideline and think that all schools deserve articles. TJ Spyke 04:04, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Why is this article pending deletion, while 3 other schools in the same area are not? halofandelta010

• Comment Assuming that they're not notable, it's because no one's gotten around to it yet. Please see WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. --Bfigura ^(talk) 04:33, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment When was the last time an article on an American high school actually got deleted? Zagalejo^^^ 04:47, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds like you are talking about OUTCOMES. Huh. I am not talking about any other articles, except the one I've nominated, and if you havent read the article, you should, and you will see that it does not assert any notability. - Rjd0060 04:54, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've read OUTCOMES; I'm just curious. Most high schools do end up passing the regular notability guidelines anyway, once people have dug up multiple independent sources. Have you done any research into this place? Zagalejo^^^ 04:56, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Most school article AFD's end up being redirected to the school district (if the school district has an article) or the city/town's article. I suppose it's meant as a compromise (the article no longer exists, but it's not deleted either). TJ Spyke 07:02, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That's true when we're talking about elementary schools, but have any high schools been deleted recently? (Like, within the past three months?) Zagalejo^^^ 07:36, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This is a new school, so it won't have any famous alumni or anything, but it has already received a fair amount of attention in The Tennessean, a major paper. A sample of stuff I found on Newsbank:

• Sarah B. Gilliam. "Ensworth High hosts Special Olympics camp". The Tennessean. 24 October 2007.
• Randy Moomaw. "Rural, urban kids learn together at Ensworth High camp". The Tennessean. 11 July 2007.
• Karen Jordan. "New year brings sophomores to Ensworth High". The Tennessean. 26 Augst 2005.
• Stephanie Toone. "Student, faculty numbers are growing at Ensworth High". The Tennessean. 20 July 2005.
• Pam Sherborne. "Parents, students get preview of Ensworth High buildings". The Tennessean. 28 November 2003. Zagalejo^^^ 05:17, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

And I found this on Google Scholar: [1] Plus this, which discusses the older Ensworth Middle School. Zagalejo^^^ 05:25, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep I have a specific and burning dislike for arguements that support WP:OUTCOMES, as it is a lazy arguement to make, and schools should be held to the same standards as any other article, (it should be noted that while MOST high schools will pass WP:N without much trouble, there is some burden of the article to at least attempt to provide references that do so). However, all of that said, based on the references provided by Zagalejo, this one appears to pass. --Jayron32|talk|contribs 05:44, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep While I'm not particularly crazy about it, high schools invariably receive coverage from local news sources. Even if the school is only a few years old, there will have been articles in papers and bits on the evening news discussing its planning and construction. faithless (^speak) 06:05, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• A question Is "coverage = notability"? It seems having a couple hundred hits on the Hated Google News Archive Test is enough to be notable for a school. Should it be so, no matter how trivial it is? "New year brings sophomores to Ensworth High". seems the very epitome of "dog bites man". I think that an article about Spam & Co Inc. would be WP:SNOWBALLed if its article was:

  "Spam & Co Inc manufacture spam.
  Reference:
  Newsflash: No Way To Earn Bacon After Spam & Co Layoff".

  This is the matter of concern here, double standards.--victor falk 11:40, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep Decisions on Wikipedia are made by consensus. What is WP:OUTCOMES if not a summary of consensus? Admittedly, we don't have a decree from the Foundation that high schools are inherently notable, but if that's the way that such deletion attempts turn out, it seems a decent consensus for me. And keep for the sake of the references, as well. Nyttend 12:50, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Keep all high schools Let's face it: they are de facto kept by default. Only in the rare cases when no one bothers to contest the nomination do they get deleted. The only result of not accepting this is the clogging up of AfD and pointless debates over wether a mention in news article is sufficient by and of itself to establish notability. What I want to see is a policy or guideline stating that.--victor falk 13:38, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete No reliable sources presented, existence of subject is not verifiable. See WP:V, WP:NOR. Subdolous 14:57, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • The existence of the subject is not in question. Smashville 15:05, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep and redirect to The Ensworth School which would be the actual name of the school. In addition, rewrite the article for The Ensworth School - the school actually does have notable alumni, including Shooter Jennings and, I believe, Bill Frist (I know Frist was at least on the board prior to being elected to the Senate). Smashville 15:04, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have stubbified The Ensworth School, added two references (one which was an article from the Nashville City Paper when the high school opened and another for the architectural award) and added Shooter Jennings as notable alumni (although I didn't cite a reference because the only one I can find is a primary source). Smashville 15:38, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm confused. I added the stub tag to it, but you haven't made any edits to it. - Rjd0060 15:48, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

According to the article history for The Ensworth School, you haven't edited it at all. Smashville 16:20, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wait...I see where the confusion is...you have edited Ensworth High School and I have edited The Ensworth School. The proper name for the school is The Ensworth School. I have not created a redirect since the pages have unique histories and I don't know whether it's kosher to do (I've done it before, but only because the name of the article was misspelled. "Ensworth High School" is part of "The Ensworth School". It's one school...). Smashville 16:37, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, I see. Well then, they should be merged? - Rjd0060 16:41, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Schools-related deletions. —Camaron1 | Chris 18:27, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep The Ensworth School, which clearly meets all standards of notability, and have Ensworth High School redirect to The Ensworth School. Alansohn 05:10, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy close this debate; all problems have been taken care of Rjd0060 14:33, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.