Talk:Safavid Iran


Ajem-Turkic

Should be specified in the infobox that the variety of Azerbaijani Turkic spoken in Safavid Iran was called Ajami Turkic. 188.71.232.34 (talk) 16:58, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please provide a source. SKAG123 (talk) 18:25, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
É. Á. Csató, B. Isaksson, C Jahani. Linguistic Convergence and Areal Diffusion: Case Studies from Iranian, Semitic and Turkic, Routledge, 2004, p. 228, ISBN 0-415-30804-6.
A specific Turkic language was attested in Safavid Persia during the 16th and 17th centuries, a language that Europeans often called Persian Turkish ("Turc Agemi", "lingua turcica agemica"), which was a favourite language at the court and in the army because of the Turkic origins of the Safavid dynasty. The original name was just turki, and so a convenient name might be Turki-yi Acemi. This variety of Persian Turkish must have been also spoken in the Caucasian and Transcaucasian regions, which during the 16th century belonged to both the Ottomans and the Safavids, and were not fully integrated into the Safavid empire until 1606. Though that language might generally be identified as Middle Azerbaijanian, it is not yet possible to define exactly the limits of this language, both in linguistic and territorial respects. It was certainly not homogenous – maybe it was an Azerbaijanian-Ottoman mixed language, as Beltadze (1967:161) states for a translation of the gospels in Georgian script from the 18th century.
Blow 2009, p. 165.
and theres also an wikipedia-article about it:
Ajem Turkic 2003:EA:4F24:B4ED:FC5E:5A66:9DB5:FF67 (talk) 17:53, 20 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
You are ready to write anything that would not recognize the Kurdish origin of the Safavid dynasties! 188.243.89.37 (talk) 11:21, 6 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Safavids are of Iranian origin, Im talking about that Safavids did not use „Azerbaijani“ as a court language, but Ajem Turkic, the Safavid Empire Itself was an Iranian and Persian speaking dynasty that just used qizilbash turks as a means to power 2003:EA:4F15:5794:D8DD:A5D0:C849:5FD6 (talk) 23:51, 10 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 29 March 2025

Citation: Nazanin Hedayat Munroe, “Figural Silk,” Khamseen: Islamic Art History Online, published 23 January 2025. Atalebi5 (talk) 14:31, 29 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Tenshi! (Talk page) 15:25, 29 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 25 May 2025

Safavid ruled by turkish tribes during the whole time. In many resources saying that Safavid is turkish empire 2600:4040:5933:8C00:681B:AAFC:7E50:B212 (talk) 16:29, 25 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Mellk (talk) 16:45, 25 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

use of “Iran” and “Persia”

as many scholars have pointed out, these terms had no “national” meaning and merely referred to geography, having no direct connection to the modern state of iran. the term “iran” was revived by the ilkhanids purely for political purposes, while “persia” derived its name from the widespread use of the persian language across the region and similarly denoted a geographic concept rather than a national identity Cultureboss (talk) 14:05, 10 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The Safavid Empire was known as the Qizilbash State

you’ve listed all the names of the safavid state related to “Iran”, but why didn’t you include the term “Dovleti Qizilbash”? are you just picking names as you like? in the safavid chronicles, by the end of Shah Abbas’s reign, the phrase “Guarded Domains of Iran” starts to appear. as i mentioned earlier, the term “Iran” had no national meaning whatsoever and cannot be linked to the modern Iranian state. even Roger Savory, whom you often cite, wrote about the use of “Qizilbash Country” to describe the safavid realm. in the translation of the book Masa’ib an-Nawasib, compiled during the reign of Shah Abbas, the name “Safavid Empire” is not used even once, but everywhere this Turkic state is called the “Qizilbash government.” in the collection of works by abd al-husayn al-nusiri tusi, written in the same period, the term “kizilbashiyya government” is also used. Ottoman–Safavid correspondence refers to the safavids and their lands as the “qizilbash country.” the map drawn by generalis totius titled imperium russorium (russian empire) marks the territory of present-day iran simply as “Kisilbasse.” do you know what that means? from its rise to its fall, this empire was known as the “Qizilbash State” Cultureboss (talk) 18:55, 10 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The name Qizilbas was also mentioned.

The country was also known as Qızılbash by Europe and the Ottomans. European Ambassador Michele Membré (1539) The Safavid state was called the Qizilbash state.[1] Adam Olearius (1637–1647), a German traveler In his work Beschreibung der muscowitischen und persischen Reise In his work, he states that the Turks called the Safavids Qızılbash and that this name was also used in Europe.[2] Modern academics also support this view; for example, Roger Savory writes that the Safavids were referred to as Qizilbash.[3][4][5]

The sources I found indicate that Europeans also referred to the Safavids as Qizilbash. Do you think there's any problem with adding this information? Aourendil1 (talk) 11:20, 10 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It's more nuanced than that, as seen in the lede of Qizilbash. And it was not their official name. Also, please see WP:GSAA. HistoryofIran (talk) 16:19, 10 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Hello, yes, I know it wasn't its official name, but it was referred to as the Kızılbaş state by Europeans and the Ottomans. For example, the official name of the Ottoman Empire was Devleti Ali Osmaniye.But in the West it was known as the Turkish Empire, and it's already mentioned in the Ottoman article, so it doesn't seem like a bad idea to have it in the Safavid Empire as well. Aourendil1 (talk) 16:32, 10 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]
the situation is in no way nuanced the safavid state was known as the qizilbash state, and actually ‘qizilbash state’ was a more common name than ‘safavid iran’ lmao Cultureboss (talk) 16:52, 10 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]
In Wikipedia we follow WP:RS, not your personal opinion nor the Reddit threads you to run to complain about me. And you're still disregarding WP:GSAA, last warning. HistoryofIran (talk) 17:09, 10 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]
What do you mean by ‘my personal opinion’? I’m saying the situation is not complicated at all, and not at all even ROGER SAVORY refers to the term ‘Kızılbash State’ when describing the Safavid state. For some reason, the sources I use are considered unreliable and shouldn’t be included in the article, but your sources are regarded as highly reliable, apparently this page follows your personal views. Stop bringing up WP:GSAA I’m not making any edits anymore the talk page is for discussion, but even discussing it you seem hesitant. We could have talked about this on Reddit, but you didn’t respond Cultureboss (talk) 21:10, 10 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Well, there are actually quite a few sources about them using the name Qizilbash, but of course I won't dictate them; perhaps we can discuss this topic another time. Take care. Aourendil1 (talk) 09:24, 11 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  1. ^ Michele Membré, Mission to the Lord Sophy of Persia (1539–1542) Cambridge University London: School of Oriental and African Studies, University of London, 1993. S.7-9
  2. ^ Adam Olearius (1637–1647) Beschreibung der muscowitischen und persischen Reise. S 287-290
  3. ^ Roger Savory — Iran Under the Safavids Cambridge Univ. Press, 1980 ISBN 0-521-04251-8 S 17, 50, 83
  4. ^ Andrew Newman — Safavid Iran (A History of the Near East) S. 33–36, 44
  5. ^ Solaiman M. Fazel. Ethnohistory of the Qizilbash in Kabul: Migration, State, and a Shi’a Minority. — S. 83
allikas: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Safavid_Iran