Talk:Cady Noland

GA review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Cady Noland/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: 19h00s (talk · contribs) 00:32, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: Floating Orb (talk · contribs) 20:57, 3 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]


The final words have been made. The review is done. I hereby declare this article as one of the Good Articles on Wikipedia. Thanks It is a wonderful world for helping me out! Thank you 19h00s for helping as the nominator! - Floating Orb, the reviewer

19h00s replies

Just breaking my replies off into another section so they're not jumbled up with the review!

Thanks. Floating Orb (talk) 22:41, 3 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • So, in re: the quoted text from the end of the "Early life and education" section, can you clarify what you're struggling to understand? In the first quotation, Noland is talking about her hometown and saying that she believes the people who live there are "two-faced" and that she wants to be different. In the second quotation she is saying that as the daughter of a successful artist, she understood how art dealers (the people who sell art) work and act. [Also I'd just add you don't have to delete every comment you make after I address it :) - we want other editors to be able to read this review in the future to see what was discussed] --19h00s (talk) 23:15, 3 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Pre-review conversation

@Floating Orb: Thanks for starting this review! Can I ask, do you plan to follow the full set of steps for reviewing this article? I'm a bit confused by your opening statement as it seems to imply that you aren't planning to complete the rest of the review. Thanks! 19h00s (talk) 21:24, 3 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, give me a moment. Floating Orb (talk) 21:42, 3 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I certainly did not expect you to complete the entire review immediately! Was just confused by your wording as you seemed to be giving a final verdict before following the process. And yes, the copyright tag was just added several minutes ago, I just started a discussion on the talk page with the editor who added it. Thanks! 19h00s (talk) 21:48, 3 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah. I think it is over for this page. The copyright violations are already bad enough. Floating Orb (talk) 21:49, 3 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Just flagged this on the GA discussion. I'm really confused by the process you're following here and I hope we can get some assistance.
Additionally, that tag is not saying there is a copyright violation, it's a warning asking admins and experienced editors to look at the non-free images on the page and ensure they're following the policy for non-free images. Again, I asked the editor who added the tag if they could explain their reasoning, and I gave my reasoning.
Thank you again. 19h00s (talk) 21:56, 3 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Okay. Floating Orb (talk) 21:57, 3 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Floating Orb, @19h00s, I came here from WT:GA and I'm really confused. Have things been removed from this review page? -- asilvering (talk) 06:13, 4 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Yes — Floating Orb has been removing most of their comments, I flagged in my replies that they should keep their comments for posterity even after the issue is addressed. 19h00s (talk) 11:26, 4 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@19h00s I would like to work with floating orb for this review if possible, but if that doesn't work out I am happy to finish the review myself. I note you have been waiting a long time for a review, and you have clearly put a lot of effort into the article, so it deserves a good review. IAWW (talk) 11:32, 4 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Floating Orb, can you please restore all of your removed comments? If you need to "remove" a comment, it's almost always better to use strikethrough instead of getting rid of the text altogether. Silently removing the text makes it really hard for others to follow along, and it is really easy to interpret that kind of behaviour as deceptive, whether you intend it that way or not. -- asilvering (talk) 16:06, 4 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Okay. Floating Orb (talk) 16:40, 4 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Not anymore. Floating Orb (talk) 16:44, 4 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Floating Orb, citations should not be in the lead, since the lead should be supported by the body. Please read and fully understand the GA criteria before reviewing, or you will make many more mistakes like this. IAWW (talk) 22:18, 3 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Oh. Okay. I'll continue with the process and try not make the same mistake. Floating Orb (talk) 22:23, 3 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Old Review

Disregard this: (Sorry. I put this review on hold. I will continue in moment while I read the guidelines a little more. Problems (this section changes quickly): I can't read some of the citations since they are books. Also, citation 14 is used multiple times. Old Review: When I first saw it, the page is pretty good. It has enough citations, though it reuses citation 2 multiple times throughout. Some sections are long without a subheadings, so it may be hard to traverse those parts. Though, it explains things pretty well. I would say it should become a GA, unless if anyone can fully prove the slight problems that I did state were major in some way. Old problems: This sentence does not match with the source fully. The parts that don't appear to be in the citation I put in parenthesis here: "(While in college) she studied under sociology professor Stephen N. Butler, (whom she would later cite as an influence on her work) What does this even mean?: "Speaking as an adult about her hometown of Washington, Noland said it was "a city of façade," adding, "What's behind it? We're two-faced! I'm trying to break the façade – mix things up." She has also said that growing up around her father's practice as an artist helped her to understand the machination.) Floating Orb (talk) 16:43, 4 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Structured review

Prose (Criteria 1a, 1b, 4) checkY

@19h00s I just read the article, and I think it is very well written. I made some small copyedits myself but couldn't find any issues I considered severe enough to impact the GA criteria. Here are a few suggestions:

  • Template:External media can be used to link to external images of the artworks. This would really help readers visualize the art that is so thoroughly described in the prose.
  • This article spends more time listing her works than giving context to them. This isn't ideal for an encyclopaedic article – you may as well just list them in a table instead of incorporating them into the prose. IAWW (talk) 12:02, 17 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Sources checkY

Health/formatting (Criterion 2a) checkY

Reliability (Criterion 2b) checkY

[255] references an MDPI journal, which are generally considered unreliable (WP:RSP). IAWW (talk) 21:30, 4 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Good catch, thanks. That's the only contemporary journal I didn't recognize at first. Struck.  Done 19h00s (talk) 14:22, 5 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Spot check (Criteria 2b, 2c, 2d) checkY

Floating Orb, indicate what references you have checked here. I checked reference [253], which fully supported the text, so I put:

  • [1]: checkY (Never says that she is a sculptor, printmaker, and installation artist)
Citations in the lead are only used in this article to support direct quotes. In this case, it supports the quote so there is no issue here. To learn more about citations in the lead, read MOS:LEADCITE. IAWW (talk) 19:14, 4 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • [2a]: checkY
  • [3a]: checkY
  • [7a]: checkY
  • [3b]: checkY (Never says the property was her father's)
Yes, it does. "Four years after his divorce from Langer in 1957, Kenneth Noland moved to New York, living at the Chelsea Hotel but eventually buying the Gully, in South Shaftsbury, Vermont, near Bennington College, a property formerly owned by Robert Frost. [...] When seen in the light of candids of C.N. and her brother and sister and dad at the Gully, should Dad’s sculptures..." --19h00s (talk) 14:33, 5 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Okay. Floating Orb (talk) 16:29, 5 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • [9]: checkY
  • [7b]: checkY
  • [15]: checkY
  • [16]: checkY (The text says more than the source)
I don't understand what you are saying here? Could you clarify what the problem is? IAWW (talk) 19:14, 4 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
It talks about Expressions of Evil in Literature and the Visual Arts and International Conference. Neither of these are mentioned by name in the source. Floating Orb (talk) 19:24, 4 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I think it's one name ("International Conference on the Expressions of Evil in Literature and the Visual Arts"), but yes, you are correct I think. Good spot and thanks for clarifying. IAWW (talk) 19:33, 4 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Your welcome. Floating Orb (talk) 19:54, 4 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Adjusted the title to be in line with Stillman's version. I had done some deep Googling to find the full name of the conference because "The Expressions of Evil" seemed oddly short, I couldn't find any actual sources to pull from but the full title of the conference is in the publication notes for several written essays in library/archive collections that were originally presented at the conference. --19h00s (talk) 14:28, 5 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • [2b]: checkY (The page only uses part of the quote, without saying so)
That's not an issue IAWW (talk) 19:14, 4 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Okay. Floating Orb (talk) 19:21, 4 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
We can change this to a checkY then, along with ticking [1] for reasons I explained up there. IAWW (talk) 21:08, 4 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • [2c]: checkY
  • [2d]: checkY
  • [2e]: checkY
  • [17]: checkY
  • [2f]: checkY
  • [34]: checkY
  • [2g]: checkY
  • [253]: checkY

Copyvio (Criterion 2d) checkY

Earwig (copyvio detector) finds nothing. I will check for any too close paraphrasing with the print sources manually. IAWW (talk) 20:14, 4 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Okay. Floating Orb (talk) 20:44, 4 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Are you done with this? Floating Orb (talk) 04:05, 14 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Yes you can tick this section off. IAWW (talk) 07:26, 14 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Okay. Floating Orb (talk) 17:46, 14 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Scope (Criteria 3a, 3b) checkY

Stable (Criterion 5) checkY

Media checkY

I have a slight question. Would it be good for the page if there was more of Noland's art added. I noticed that the beginning of the "Career Beginnings" section doesn't have any pictures, and only describes the art. Maybe it should have some pictures of it? Floating Orb (talk) 16:55, 4 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Hi @Floating Orb, I moved your suggestion to the appropriate section of the review. This is a good suggestion, but it may not be possible if there are not free images available. IAWW (talk) 17:06, 4 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, okay. Floating Orb (talk) 17:07, 4 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Tags (Criterion 6a) checkY

Almost every picture in this article is flagged for needing a rationale. Floating Orb (talk) 21:50, 12 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
That is incorrect - every single one of those images has a rationale, all listed in the "Summary" section of the file pages. 19h00s (talk) 22:02, 12 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
If you are referencing the warning label directly below the license text, that is not a warning saying that these images do not have rationales. That is a request for administrators and patrollers to confirm the rationale. There are very clear rationales listed in the correct section on each file page. 19h00s (talk) 22:04, 12 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, okay. I was wondering so. Floating Orb (talk) 23:34, 12 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I'll consider it good. Floating Orb (talk) 23:35, 12 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Floating Orb Well done for actually trying to check the tags though IAWW (talk) 07:19, 13 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. Floating Orb (talk) 16:52, 13 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Captions (Criterion 6b) checkY